JH600 stalling

[MotoKai]

Brazil is watching!

[bigdamo]

Interesting discussion regarding octane levels. With the one huge caveat that the bad tanks of gas that I've suffered were both 93 octane, I have not sensed any difference in actual performance from 93 to 97. Meaning that "good 93" seems to perform no worse than "good 97". So Lao Jia Huo's Canadian buddy's comments do ring true. Perhaps this is why these grades were called "regular" and "premium" back in the day (in the US, where I'm from, anyway). Is it possible that because it costs more, the 97 octane fuel gets a bit better filtering and handling during refining, while 93 is refined to a lesser level of purity?

One belated suggestion regarding these stalling/backfire/ignition issues with the JH600: Upgrade to an Iridium plug. The Jialing stock plug is seriously inferior, and you'll get a palpable improvement in ignition with a better plug. Next step for me: An Iridium cable.

Finally, any word from our friends in Chongqing about the ECU firmware upgrade? They've only ever told me "October", which now is just a couple days away. Anyone have it yet? Or heard of plans to release it? Might be worth a call to Lao Zhou or Tang Wei...

cheers

Y
You should be using 97 octane in high compression engines(12:5:1).Running 93 octane petrol in a high compression engine will cause pinging and eventually valve damage.

I don't think the JH600 has a high compression piston running 97 octane will not do much for engine performance although it should burn/ignite better.


I don't think JH600 has a high compression piston in them.

[bigdamo]

Thanks for the info. It is definitely worthwhile learning about the myriad of possibilities.

One problem facing us JH600'rs is that our bikes are "under warranty" (well, ok, take that at face value). We can't yet rip the things apart. At present, we must rely on the expertise & willingness of Jialing to address this serious issue.

In fairness to the Beijing Service Centre, it appears to have tried everything possible to help me out. But it, as well, is constrained by what options it has.

Jialing (Chongqing) needs to step up to the plate. We'll see what happens in the coming week, or so.

Has Jialing or any Chinese motorcycle manufacture ever had a product recall not trying to be smart just wondered.

Alot of euro and Jap manufactures are slow if at all to implement a product recall.

[Barry]

Last time I rode with LJH, he definitely wasn't enjoying the JH600. He did more stalls than clicks that day I guess.

I'm actually wondering how the JH600's in Shanghai are holding up when it comes to stalling. Mainly interested in the pre-2010 version compared to 2010 version and later, did things actually improve with the 2010 and later versions?

I had the stall within 30 seconds after starting the engine from cold for while, but now that's gone again. Just the occasional stall, but nothing like LJH is experiencing at the moment.

[euphonius]

Barry, my JH600, the last of the 2009 models, is performing quite similarly to yours. I sometimes get the 30 second stall in the cold engine. And only rarely have stalls during riding. Nothing remotely like what LJH is experiencing.

But when it does happen, it can be dangerous. I had a stall a few weeks ago while rounding a corner coming off a busy ring road. I dropped a gear and popped the clutch to restart it, and damned if this didn't case my rear wheel to skid for just a nanosecond, causing it to slip out from under me just enough to scare the shit out of me.

Others say they don't use the clutch to restart the motor; instead they keep the clutch disengaged and hit the electric starter, the clutch out in an appropriate gear.

Totally agree with LJH that any stalling that's not related to driver error is unacceptable. I'm in California riding my KLR right now, and it idles like a purring cat. Never ever stalls. What a difference! Motorcycle engines simply should not stall of their own accord.

cheers

[TexasAggie]

LJH,

Did you ever try giving Mr Li a call over in Hefei, Anhui Province? He has lots of experience keeping the Military bikes going.

I only experience the stalling once in a great while. Last half dozen short rides have had no issues but I only have a couple thousand kilometers on my bike.

Maybe it is the location and fuel differences. The local Ford and Mazda engine guys who have factories in Nanjing go nuts with different province fuel qualities that actually require different ECU setup depending where the cars go. IT is not widely known for obvious reasons but maybe we suffer same thing with the JH600 depending on the fuel for ECU to be at certain levels that are not maintained.

Anyway, I would call Mr Li and try to get him to come to Beijing if you can. He has been the solution to my problems.

[Lao Jia Hou]

I don't think the JH600 has a high compression piston running 97 octane will not do much for engine performance although it should burn/ignite better.

We went that route for a while, suspecting improvement from 97, but nothing really changed. The JH600 has a low 9.7:1 compression, which was one of its attractions to me, given the low quality gas found throughout China. When one gets up into the double digits compression, fuel becomes a huge factor.

Has Jialing or any Chinese motorcycle manufacture ever had a product recall not trying to be smart just wondered.

Alot of euro and Jap manufactures are slow if at all to implement a product recall.

Not that I have heard of - I have seen a few automobile recalls in China.

Last time I rode with LJH, he definitely wasn't enjoying the JH600. He did more stalls than clicks that day I guess.

Yeah, and that was on my "A" ... my "B" was considerably worse until this total makeover. Now, the "B" is stalling only a couple of times on each little trip. I took it out again today, after receiving it back yesterday. Ran it from home to Tiananmen and back. A couple of stalls in each direction, one at a very bad time (3 lanes merging into 1 and I was getting squeezed ... and the bloody bike stalls).

Anyways, at the suggestion of some other JH600'rs, I've made some videos of these bikes. I'll post them after I figure out how to edit them, cut down the file sizes and upload them to Youku.

... any stalling that's not related to driver error is unacceptable. I'm in California riding my KLR right now, and it idles like a purring cat. Never ever stalls. What a difference! Motorcycle engines simply should not stall of their own accord.

Most of my life, I've been poor ... riding buckets of bolts held together by nothing more than a prayer ... but I've never experienced anything even remotely similar to this. Bikes should not stall, especially EFI bikes. Man, I never thought I'd be fondly remembering quirky carbs as "the good old days".

LJH,

Did you ever try giving Mr Li a call over in Hefei, Anhui Province? He has lots of experience keeping the Military bikes going.

I only experience the stalling once in a great while. Last half dozen short rides have had no issues but I only have a couple thousand kilometers on my bike.

Maybe it is the location and fuel differences. The local Ford and Mazda engine guys who have factories in Nanjing go nuts with different province fuel qualities that actually require different ECU setup depending where the cars go. IT is not widely known for obvious reasons but maybe we suffer same thing with the JH600 depending on the fuel for ECU to be at certain levels that are not maintained.

Anyway, I would call Mr Li and try to get him to come to Beijing if you can. He has been the solution to my problems.

Thanks TA. Actually, the Beijing guys are rather decent, also looking after the military bikes. But I kinda get a sense from them that no matter how hard they squeeze, lemonade just isn't coming out.

Both of my bikes were ok, at first ... but with miles, the stalling just got progressively worse and worse. Now, the "B" is completely rebuilt with all new/updated parts. It stalls only once or twice every few kms. I've got about 6,000 kms on each bike - which, in my books, is still brand new. I am totally anal about servicing and adjustments - my bike never moves unless its chain is adjusted perfectly, etc, etc, etc.

As a end note - before my "B" went in for its makeover, I took it around on some errands. It was a cold day. It only stalled half a dozen times (normally, it would stall this amount before getting out of my parking garage). I immediately suspected a dirty/faulty Mass Air Flow sensor, or maybe the ambient temp sensor. Alas, the next day (also cold), the extreme stalling recurred.

[Barry]

Both of my bikes were ok, at first ... but with miles, the stalling just got progressively worse and worse. Now, the "B" is completely rebuilt with all new/updated parts. It stalls only once or twice every few kms. I've got about 6,000 kms on each bike - which, in my books, is still brand new. I am totally anal about servicing and adjustments - my bike never moves unless its chain is adjusted perfectly, etc, etc, etc.

My bike just past the 25.000 KM this weekend, so yes 6.000 is pretty new!

I thought about cold vs warm days and high vs low humidity as well before when I had some issues, but it doesn't seem to be very consistent. We would all need some long-term diagnosis.

Regarding fuel, try sticking to gas from 1 gas station for a while if possible. I have a gas station around the corner at my new apartment, and only got gas from there for at least a month already. That way you could at least see if the behavior is consistent when always filling up the exact same station. During my trip I did 400 KM once on a full tank of gas including about 80 KM on reserve, so that's with a pillion and luggage! A full tank should be a enough for a normal day out!

[euphonius]

I definitely second Aggie's suggestion. Li Shaoji (李绍基) is very knowledgeable and knows the JH600 inside out. He's in Hefei, reachable at +86 130-8349-6316. He and Lao Zhou at Jialing are my go-to guys for sleuthing and problem-solving.

Lao Zhou would also be a good resource in this episode, as he's recently been redeployed out of the JH600 team but has been asked by Jialing management to continue taking after-sale service calls for the JH600. He has spoken frankly with me about the recent changes at Jialing and cares very much about our safety and satisfaction as customers. Could provide the right intelligence for getting to senior management. LJH I'll PM you Zhou's mobile.

Frankie might have ideas too, as he's spent time with Jialing management.

Cheers

[Lao Jia Hou]

Thanks jkp

We'll call today and see what happens.

Here's an example of a stalling recall, issued within this past week.

http://www.cyclecanadaweb.com/articles/13116/

Different bike & different manufacturer, of course.

And, of course, different country - one with a different sense of road-worthiness.

I can't help thinking that Jialing should just get together with the experts from Bosch and AVL - get a few sample bikes (I personally know of several candidates, aside from my own) - and figure it out. Shouldn't take these experts more than a week.