JH600 stalling

[MJH]

I wonder if it is the GPS on board guidance system that nearly caused the accidents?

[milton]

My JH600 suffered a few damages 3 weeks ago due to a getoff, the first in my 5-year incident-free riding history in downtown Shanghai. I was completly blameless, not injured and that the van that caused it ran off from the incident. Since I needed to replace many smashed parts, I decided to have Xiao Fan perform the ECU upgrade (from version 2.0 to 3.0) at the same time as well. Note that my JH600 was in great running condition after Eric's adjustment to the Throttle Position Sensor, which only costed a bit higher gas mileage. I am having the upgrade done due to the concern for the long term performance of the 2.0 ECU.


The upgrade steps are:
1. Take out the whole electric cable harness and replace it with a new 3.0 cable assembly(picture below).
2. Reconnect all the electric connectors to the new cable harness, and leave alone the Camshaft Position Sensor, which is now deprecated as previously reported.
3. Swap in the new ECU 3.0
4. Add a resistor to the instrument panel (otherwise the overheating light would not work correctly).
5. Pay for the parts and labor (around 1200 rmb)


The new cable harness:



The upgrade involves only 2 major parts, the ECU and the complete cable harness, but the work is extensive as the front/back fairings, gas tank,luggage rack and all the electric parts need be disassembled and reinstalled. It took almost a day for Xiao Fan to swap in the new cable harness, discovering only one difference (2 wires crossed) in the new harness from the old one. Actually, as far as we can tell, only the ECU connector has been redesigned. The rest of the wires and connectors are pretty much the same as the previous version. Although I haven't been able to road test it (due to an unrelated missing part), the upgrade seems to work well for the limited time (a few minutes) we exercised it in idle in the shop. It started right away without stall and stayed stable. Eric (thanks Eric) also commented that the engine under the new ECU is more responsive to gas without the "hesitation" sometimes experienced in the old ECU.


All in all, the upgrade so far has been uneventful but very promising. I need to wait until that new part comes in before I can road-test it. I shall keep my fingers crossed for its on-road performance. Should there be any unexpected issues, we may need to restore the ECU back to 2.0, as there is still no ECU diagnostic station available in Shanghai to help us. It's now just in the following unsightly shape:

Bear in mind that this bike may turn into a collectible as it is the first known upgrade attempt of this sort in the world. I will file a report again when the historical time comes to actually put it to test on Shanghai streets.

By the way, after spending one day watching Xiao Fan work the whole time, I have renewed my confidence in his ability to deliver the services and support for our JH600, to the extent the Jialing's factory support program would allow it. He is quite systematic and methodical, thinking through the process and looking up the manuals for the unexpected. His shop had been cleaned before the holidays, definitely not to the standard Mr. E demands, but a huge improvement nontheless. He even had ready a new tray (albeit too small, on top of that blue stool) to collect those parts taken off the bike. As far as replacing the new cable harness goes, this is the second time he has done it. If the upgrade on my bike turns out successfully, there should be no doubt he can replicate it to the next bike.

Cheers!

[bikerdoc]

sorry to read about your crash! and subsequent damage to your motorbike. No chance that you got any of the license plate details off the offending vehicle as it sped away? Sounds as though the main wiring & ECU replacement have come about with an unfortunate aligning of the stars... at least the dark cloud has had a sliver lining, besides the weather hasn't been all that great... well at least not round here most days.

[milton]

sorry to read about your crash! and subsequent damage to your motorbike. No chance that you got any of the license plate details off the offending vehicle as it sped away? ........

Thanks for your kind words. I actually had part of the license plate, but failed to connect to either 110 or 122 (traffic accidents). Both numbers gave me the endless circular messages. After a whole hour dialing in vain in freezing cold I finally gave up. The incident was close to a traffic light but beyond the range of any cameras. A potential witness refused to get involved like a plague. Luckily I was not injured. The lining of the stars was not all bad that day.

[Nuhaus]

Sorry to hear about the crash, very glad to hear you were not injured. I think you're taking the right attitude about it, letting it go rather than trying to get police involved at this point. I'm curious to know if your insurance here covers repairs at all?

The incident was close to a traffic light but beyond the range of any cameras.

Not at all surprised that getting through to report the incident was an exercise in Kafka. I always wonder about how well the streets really are being watched through police video cameras. Perhaps if you were to get through, some kind soul could review the area to see just what cameras were available that you might not have seen.

[euphonius]

Dear Milton,

Add me to the list of friends breathing a sigh of relief that you were not seriously hurt. 998S informed me of your getoff only yesterday.

Good to know that Xiao Fan is getting his act together, and showing some competence with our bikes. Between him and Yang Jie and Dr Cui, our support situation is improving, even if it's all at arm's length from Chongqing. Eric was cautiously optimistic that the 3.0 ECU "fix" is a good one, though ultimately we remain vulnerable to problems if Jialing doesn't raise its game in after-sales support, and especially in out-of-warranty support.

I'm also impressed that the price of the 3.0 upgrade kit is relatively painless at 1200 RMB, which is probably about the difference in the bike's retail price between the JH600 and the JH600A. I can live with that.

To merge threads a bit, having now ridden the new 600cc from Qianjiang/Benelli, I'm still highly partisan to our JH600 dual sport, which in my view is a far more appropriate style of bike for anyone riding lots of km in this crazed country.

Hope to see you on your revivified Jialing soon!

cheers!

[MotoKai]

Hey Milton - Glad you are okay!
I've been in the US for the last 2 weeks - coming back end of FEB. Looking forward to replicating the ECU change when I'm back in town.
Seems I'm not missing much riding in Shanghai these days with the cold weather, but let's hope for some good riding days in March!

[milton]

Finally got all the parts in and the bike upgraded and ready for road test on Saturday.
Did about 70km in 2 days, including a 20km stint on the mid-ring expressway. There has been no stalling at all. Not once. Also, it used to always stall 10 seconds after it's first fired up. Even that "start-up bug" is gone. Now the idling rpm stays very stable at 1700 under a great number of conditions in city riding.

Apart from solving the idling problem, the new ECU responds noticeably better to the throttle and the power has improved over all rpm ranges. It is a lot more fun to ride it than before. It used to hesitate and stumble at lower gears. Now it is reasonably smooth on all ranges, as good as a single cylinder engine can ever offer. The new 3.0 ECU works well with my "old 2.0 JH600", at least for now.

JH600A, the 2011 model with 3.0 ECU, comes with a new instrument panel. I did not replace mine, as Liu (刘志东) thinks that a simple mod with a resistor would make the old panel work with the new ECU. Now the overheating light would flash unexpectedly. We are still waiting for the recipe for the mod.

This is what I'd say about the upgrade:
1. My bike has over 20k on the clock. The performance of previous 2.0 ECU had deteriorated to the point of being nearly unridable. The new 3.0 ECU works quite well with the same set of existing or "old" ECU sensors. I can only attribute the improvement to the new 3.0 ECU program.
2. It is still not clear what Jialing would do to maintain the new ECU in the long run. The new ECU seems to tolerate the "aging" of sensors better, but the longer term stability is not guaranteed.
3. Being the brave sole for the first upgrade ever conducted in the land, I am getting a discount for the work with the final tab of 1350 rmb, including 200rmb labor. Xiao Fan did a great job. 刘志东 has been instrumental in getting the factory to respond and the discount. However, I am still upset for having to pay for the cost in fixing the factory/design defects. But TIC. I am just happy that it is fun again to hop on my JH600.

I'd also like to thank Eric for helping out before and during the upgrade.

Cheers!

[998S]

...responds noticeably better to the gas pedal ...

I guess that was the rabbit out of the hat, upgrading the throttle for a pedal

It is very good to hear that things are finally solved, and for that little money (remember, for those amounts mentioned, in the west they don't even have a look at a bike, let alone repair it), it is a no brainer.
Guess you made Motokai very happy just now.

It was great to contribute to this matter, and been able to help you a bit in finally getting it solved.
Enjoy your riding, and don't forget to pass by every now and then.
We still have the 1/2 bottle you brought, might be a good idea to hit that one on the good work :).

[euphonius]

...This is what I'd say about the upgrade:
1. My bike has over 20k on the clock. The performance of previous 2.0 ECU had deteriorated to the point of nearly unridable. The new 3.0 ECU works quite well with the same set of "old" ECU sensors. I can only attribute the improvement to the new 3.0 ECU program.
2. It is still not clear what Jialing would do to maintain the new ECU in the long run. The new ECU seems to tolerate the "aging" of sensors better, but the longer stability is not guaranteed.
3. Being the brave sole for the first upgrade ever conducted in the land, I am getting a discount for the work with the final tab of 1350 rmb, including 200rmb labor. Xiao Fan did a great job. 刘志东 has been instrumental in getting the factory to respond and the discount. However, I am still upset for having to pay for the cost in fixing the factory/design defects. But TIC. I am just happy that it is fun again to hop on my JH600.

Dear Milton,

Many thanks for this excellent, thoughtful and ultimately happy update. The irony is that Jialing, stupidly in my opinion, has managed to finally get your bike to a level of acceptability while totally squandering a wonderful chance to improve its reputation. Instead, they still have at best a jury-rigged customer support system that leaves owners of their bikes deeply frustrated despite their huge size and influence.

For example, think about Lao Jia Hou in Beijing, who owns not one but two JH600s (a single and a sidecar) but is so disgusted with Jialing for its foot-dragging and excuse-making that he's determined to dump the bikes, and will never have a good word to say for the company. This is the same guy who, more than a year ago, offered to swap out the whole EFI system at his own expense to end his absurdly dangerous stalling problem -- precisely what you've managed now to do -- but was told by Jialing that this was impossible. That's right: Impossible. Can't be done. So were they lying? Or just lazy? Or just really, really insensitive stupid fucks?

Now, after a year of pressure, Jialing moves forward with precisely the fix that LJH proposed -- and not only can it be done, it works (at least for now)!

But stupid Jialing does not elect to come out and say, like a mature adult, "We are sorry for the problems experienced by owners of our bikes with the 2.0 EFI, but are pleased to announce that by working with our customers we've come up with an effective remedy."

Instead, they will allow the story to fester here in MCM and other forums about how this gigantic company refused and dithered and ignored and basically told their 2.0 customers to go fuck themselves rather than coming out and making things right. If Motokai or I or any other 2.0 owners want to update, presumably we'll have to go begging to them too, and then pay whatever it costs to rectify Jialing's own faulty design. OK, we're happy to have this upgrade path, but not happy about Jialing's cupidity.

These Jialing people seem to be simply too stupid, and too far removed from the actual consumers of their products, to know any better. This is why Chinese companies have virtually no recognized international brands, and no skills whatsoever in building long-term customer loyalty. In Chinese this is called 一锤子买卖 "doing commerce with a hammer" -- if you deceive or coerce a customer to make a sale, they'll never come back. Lao Jia Hou will never again buy from this company, and will speak only ill of Jialing, and everyone who knows about his frustrations with Jialing will keep their distance too. As they should.

Fucking geniuses up there in Chongqing.