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  1. #21 Re: Android mobile platform 
    Life Is Good! ChinaV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by td_ref View Post
    I don't know anyone have found a way to navigate a pre-load route in google maps, say I have carefully planed a route from point A to B on my PC, then transfer that route to android phone. Combing 'my maps' and Maps, one can navigate a pre-set route by constantly watching the screen.Hopefully google can make this very useful feature in its navigation app soon.
    TD, are you saying that you don't know how to make a complicated route on your PC and then follow it on your phone? It's possible to do, and I can write a tutorial if people don't know how to transfer routes.

    If you want to see a sample route, open google maps and type this into the search. http://www.contactdi.com/map/102.kml Obviously there is no way that anyone would go from Ruyuan to Nanxiong via this route, but that is how I plan all my rides. This example will work on Window Mobile or Android, but will not work on the iPhone, which is why I gave up on the iPhone.

    Cheers!
    ChinaV
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  2. #22 Re: Android mobile platform 
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChinaV View Post
    TD, are you saying that you don't know how to make a complicated route on your PC and then follow it on your phone? It's possible to do, and I can write a tutorial if people don't know how to transfer routes.

    If you want to see a sample route, open google maps and type this into the search. http://www.contactdi.com/map/102.kml Obviously there is no way that anyone would go from Ruyuan to Nanxiong via this route, but that is how I plan all my rides. This example will work on Window Mobile or Android, but will not work on the iPhone, which is why I gave up on the iPhone.

    Cheers!
    ChinaV
    Yes please how did you do that? Last I used my Hero for navigation on a long trip, the route was exported as a series of checkpoints. I used Google maps to make a route, then exported a KML file by adding "&output=kml" to the link. When I loaded the KML on Oruxmaps, I only got the points that gmaps marked for turning.. So I ended up with something like a roll-chart app, only confirming I'm somewhere near my designated checkpoints.
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  3. #23 Re: Android mobile platform 
    Life Is Good! ChinaV's Avatar
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  4. #24 Re: Android mobile platform 
    Life Is Good! ChinaV's Avatar
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    Another bit of fodder for all that have gulped down the Android cool aid and think it's such an "open platform".

    In the last couple weeks I've done a lot of ROM updates and testing of various Android builds. If Android is so "open", how come:
    • Many devices are stuck on version 1.6 and can't be upgraded.
    • Phones require "rooting"...how does that differ from iPhone "jailbreaking".
    • Why can't I download hundreds of applications from the Android Market when I have a Chinese SIM card (or other non-USA/EURO telco)?
    • Why can't I purchase thousands of applications while living in China (or other countries)?
    • Why doesn't Google Navigation work in the majority of countries on the earth?
    • Why does Google discriminate against hardware? If it were open, it would be possible to install on any device. Upon such installation, all features should be available?
    • Why do you have to search forums for simple issues like how to trick the market into thinking you speak english?


    So far, I see some differences in the way Google and Apple operate. Apple controls you with an application called "iTunes" and Google controls you with a hodge podge collection of beta "cloud" applications. I wouldn't call either of them "open" or "closed", more like "controlled". Obviously, Android's lack of quality control has allowed them deliver a few too many malware apps via their Market store, so I'm sure we'll see further controls set in place in the near future.

    Apple may control a bit of your phone life, but take a look at the amount of data Google is harvesting on you, and then ask who looks like big brother. If you want anything to work correctly in Android (not just the phone, but on your computer as well) you need to be logged into your Google account at all times. That means every tiny detail, from contacts, to what you search, to where you go (via what route), and all websites you visit are being tracked by google.

    For me, the Android world seems to have so much potential, and I'm loving the power, but it's the Google applications that stand in its way. Unlike Chinabiker, my contacts don't sync seamlessly, my maps don't update quickly, I had to finally resort to using Google Chrome to get bookmarks to sync with my Google account, and the last time I reset my phone, the appstore lost all the applications associated with my Google account. Simple things, like changing the name of a POI in Google Maps, have thousands of complaints on googles forums, yet Google ignores the request to fix this after more than a year. BTW, POI's are saved in your google account as "bookmarks" WTF?

    I guess the one big difference I'm noticing between WinMo, iPhone, and Android is privacy. I could switch between many devices with MacOS, iPhone, Windows, & WinMo without ever requiring an internet connection. A little tweaking, and any of these platforms can easily transfer your vital data with ease. The Android and Google platforms have no privacy at all. Everything you do with them is tied to analyzing you and feeding you advertisements.

    So overall, I'm loving the geek aspect of being in the Android world, but as a geek, I can't stand the fact they are harvesting info on every little bit of my life. I'm not spending hours on hacking into features, I'm spending hours trying to figure out how to do something without it being reported to my Google account.

    Which...BTW... is why my extended KML routine is much better than MyMaps. You can anonymously create a route and then travel it whenever you want versus the Google way of telling them when you create routes and when you travel them.

    Oh well....

    "You have zero privacy anyway, get over it."
    Scott McNealy, Sun Microsystems 1999


    Cheers!
    ChinaV
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  5. #25 Re: Android mobile platform 
    C-Moto Senior CantDecide's Avatar
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    Hi ChinaV,

    I've had an HTC G1 and a G2, and I can take a stab at some of your questions, you probably know my responses already since you are familiar with rooting, but I'll give it a go anyway...

    Many devices are stuck on version 1.6 and can't be upgraded.
    Phones require "rooting"...how does that differ from iPhone "jailbreaking".
    So, first off, Android, the operating system, is completely open. Android doesn't include any of the Google applications, like Mail, Maps, and Market, those are all "Google" products, which you will find on most, but not all Android phones. For example, most of the Shanzai Android tablets you'll find in China don't have Google apps, because they haven't agreed to Google's licensing requirements, but they are still free to use Android itself. This is also why a lot of ROMs don't have the Google apps. I don't know how CyanogenMod gets around this, I know he had a dispute with Google in the early days, but they seem to have worked something out. Anyway, I didn't read the whole thread, so I don't know if you've tried his roms, but I would suggest them, they are quite good, if you have a compatible phone.

    By default actual "root" access (that's like Administrator access on Windows) is locked out of your phone for security reasons, not to protect the phone from you, but to protect you from hackers. Google just pulled about 20 apps (written in China) that rooted peoples phones, signed them up for SMS messages that charge them money, and then intercepted and hid the incoming SMSs from the user. Anyway, that's just an example of why phones are root-locked by default.

    Having a closed boot loader (thats the technical term for a phone that requires rooting/jailbreaking to upgrade the firmware) is a design decision of the phone carriers and manufacturers, not Android or Google. In fact, the Nexus One, T-Mobile G1, and quite a few other phones came with open bootloaders and didn't require real hacking to install alternate firmware. Google has said they are are committed to releasing all of their phones in a way that lets alternate firmware to be developed.

    The phone companies lock their phones down for a bunch of reasons:

    0) They are in general, c*cks and they want to screw you.
    1) They don't want the support nightmare of millions of people with a ton of different firmwares, or people bricking their phones and complaining.
    2) They don't want you installing software they can't get a cut from
    3) They don't want you installing ways to make free calls or to subvert their profit system
    4) They don't want to risk you getting a virus that brings down their network or sucks their bandwidth

    This is probably more information than anyone cares to have, but there are actually three separate levels of 'rooting' a phone:

    1) root / Administrator access. This lets you write to the filesystem, install OS-level software, etc
    2) boot-loader level: This lets you replace the bootloader and install new ROMs
    3) unlocking the cell-networks: This lets you put a foreign sim into your phone and use it

    I can tell you that with T-Mobile, I just call them up and ask them for the unlock code and give them my phones IMEI number, and they email me the unlock code. It takes about 3 minutes (and then I wait 24 hours for the email). Super simple. I don't know what ATT's policies are, but they suck so I'd guess they aren't so nice about it. Verizon and Sprint don't use GSM phones, so there is no SIM and you can't unlock it.

    Why can't I download hundreds of applications from the Android Market when I have a Chinese SIM card (or other non-USA/EURO telco)?
    Why can't I purchase thousands of applications while living in China (or other countries)?
    This is all about IP protection, licensing issues, and profits. Google probably isn't allowed for some reason or other to charge money for applications in China, or possibly even the app authors not wanting their apps sold in China.

    Why doesn't Google Navigation work in the majority of countries on the earth?
    That's easy: They probably don't have routing information for most countries yet. Its expensive and complicated to build the routing information on top of the maps, and I'm sure google sources the information from some other company, but if everyone in China is using Baidu, there probably isn't the profit margin available for adding navigation there. Also, I'm guessing Google doesn't want to roll out a 1/2 baked solution, and China is a big country...

    Why does Google discriminate against hardware? If it were open, it would be possible to install on any device. Upon such installation, all features should be available?
    Embedded systems are much harder to mix and match than desktop PCs. The version of Android running on each and every phone model is custom compiled and it is very hard to port a rom to a new device. Also, Android 2.x has much higher system requirements than Android 1.6, which is why a lot of 1.6 devices never got the 2.x upgrade. I know my G1 can barely handle Android 2.x.

    Of course the other reason a lot of phones get left at 1.x is that unlike Apple, the other phone companies come out with many models each year, and since they are busy qualifying new phones and new OSs, they don't have the time or financial incentive to upgrade dated phones. They would rather you just bought a new phone.

    Why do you have to search forums for simple issues like how to trick the market into thinking you speak english?
    That's a good question. I'm going to guess that unlike Apple, Google just doesn't have the spit and polish thing down. I know I was amazed at how easy it was to switch my wife's jailbroken IPhone between Chinese and English. Android definitely has a way to go on this.

    I'm coming to China on Sunday and I'm really hoping I can find a nice Shanzai Android tablet for cheap, I think it will be a fun, cheap iPad fighter, if I can find one. But I have illusions, it probably won't have Google apps, the official Android Market, and it will probably never get an OS upgrade, unless I pick a popular one and the community figures out a new distro for it.

    -Josh
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  6. #26 Re: Android mobile platform 
    C-Moto Senior CantDecide's Avatar
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    Sorry, quick followup:

    I guess the one big difference I'm noticing between WinMo, iPhone, and Android is privacy. I could switch between many devices with MacOS, iPhone, Windows, & WinMo without ever requiring an internet connection. A little tweaking, and any of these platforms can easily transfer your vital data with ease. The Android and Google platforms have no privacy at all. Everything you do with them is tied to analyzing you and feeding you advertisements.
    So definitely Google's profits come from aggregate data collection, and its a bit creepy. No argument there. Apple makes their money by selling a premium product at a premium price, and then locking down what you can do with the device and who can write software for it, providing you a censored environment. I'm not sure either is better than the other, but I'm tired of Apple's market tyranny and their policies towards developers, and Google's syncing is just so damn convenient. Microsoft has learned an interesting way to mix Apple's profit model with their own 'embrace and extend crap', and while Windows Mobile 7 looks slick, I'll never buy another MS product again.

    I've never had the problems you describe, but I won't say they can't happen. I sync my laptop, my phone, and my work account all together with the big G, and creepy as it is, it usually works ok. I've always had trouble moving information between Windows devices. Getting your info onto an Apple device works great if you use iTunes to sync, but the minute you try and get off iTunes, or want to sync without wires, you are locked into MobileMe and $99 a year or whatever it is now. And don't think Apple isn't data-mining the crap out of that either.

    BTW, I am typing this on a MacBook, which I rationalize because unlike iOS it is built on open source software, and as long as I say away from their new App Store, developers can use any API they want and write software that does anything. Its only when they distribute it through the App Store that Apple starts getting pissy.
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  7. #27 Re: Android mobile platform 
    Motorcycle Addict chinabiker's Avatar
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    Wow, thanks for the update ChinaV and cantdecide.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChinaV View Post
    Unlike Chinabiker, my contacts don't sync seamlessly, my maps don't update quickly, I had to finally resort to using Google Chrome to get bookmarks to sync with my Google account, and the last time I reset my phone, the appstore lost all the applications associated with my Google account.
    The reason I don't have any problems with my G account and Android might be that I am on pure Google stuff Nexus One, Nexus S with stock Google Roms and I use only Chrome (some minor exceptions) for Google apps on and off the cloud.
    To sync Bookmarks I got the X-Marks add on for FF, Chrome and Android, which syncs not only between computers but also between browsers.

    None of the systems, be it the droid or the fruit, is perfect. I get very well along with the big G but I do have a backup IT and online life apart from it.

    One thing on the droid pisses me off: why can't there be a screen capture app without having to root?
    Andy
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  8. #28 Re: Android mobile platform 
    Life Is Good! ChinaV's Avatar
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    Thanks Josh for taking the time to share all that knowledge. I would say we are probably hanging out in some of the same forums, you're obviously familiar with flashing ROMs, radios and the general tweaking that comes from dealing with all these various devices. I understand your explanation of "rooting" as OSX has the same type of security built in. Instead of "rooting", it seems a simple sudo command would be better. Plenty of good ROMs out there, I'm using HyperDroidGBXv7 on my HD2 after trying about half a dozen others. Gingerbread is very fast and stable on this device.

    Some of my questions are just rants that I think people should think about before committing to the Google/Android lifestyle. Obviously there's no way to keep supporting old hardware with advanced new versions, but it seems that WinMo ROM cookers were able to keep the lifespan of WinMo products going a bit longer than the Android devs. A good example is the 600 Yuan I spent on a Shanzai tablet less than 12 months ago. It's been abandoned by the development community at Android 1.5 ....oh well, it makes a nice photo frame/viewer. If you do find a cheapo tablet, be sure you see it running at least 2.2, otherwise it's probably going to be a turd, stuck at 1.5 or 1.6.

    Google's policy for their Market store and apps really isn't better (and in many cases is worse) than Apple's iTunes store. It's got nothing to do with IP, it's just a sloppy setup that doesn't work. Most of the apps I've had problems with are either free Google products, or free apps from other developers. They just don't show up, or can't be downloaded if you access the store with a China SIM card in your phone. Put your phone in airplane mode, turn the WIFI on and then access the store and the store thinks you're using a tablet (inside China) Boom, the apps can be downloaded. In other words, they're OK with you downloading apps to Shanzai tablets in China, just not phones with China Mobile SIM cards. And it's not just China, this problem is mentioned with lots of other devices in other countries.

    Google Maps navigation is rather strange, as BRUT Google Maps/Nav performs turn by turn voice navigation beautifully here in China, and it's simply a hacked version of Google's product. The routing data comes from the map companies, of which there are a half dozen throughout the world that control the entire market, so I'm guessing that Google can't provide turn by turn because their map providers forbid it.

    I agree that Apple is data mining Mobile Me, but there are plenty of applications out there to sync your MacOS address book, calendar and bookmarks with any device OS without using the internet, likewise for Windows.

    About Apple charging premium prices for premium products... True, Apple builds premium devices, but their prices are either the same, or lower, for anything else on the market with comparable specs. Look at the price of the Motorola Xoom, Samsung Galaxy and Apple iPad2...no contest, more hardware for less money from Apple. What we get from the Android world is more choices and options at variable price points, and I think that is where Android can beat Apple every time.

    Cheers!
    ChinaV
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  9. #29 Re: Android mobile platform 
    C-Moto Senior CantDecide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChinaV View Post
    About Apple charging premium prices for premium products... True, Apple builds premium devices, but their prices are either the same, or lower, for anything else on the market with comparable specs. Look at the price of the Motorola Xoom, Samsung Galaxy and Apple iPad2...no contest, more hardware for less money from Apple. What we get from the Android world is more choices and options at variable price points, and I think that is where Android can beat Apple every time.
    Hi ChinaV, thanks for clearing up some of the China-specific issues for me. I'm guessing a bunch of that still has to do more with inter-company business and not technical stuff, but its definitely infuriating.

    I think you hit the nail on the head with that above quote though. I read an article once that said Android is the new Windows, and in some ways I think it is true. Android runs on a ton of platforms, and a huge range of price points. Apple products have always run on a limited range of price points. I always tell laptop buyers, if you are going to spend $1500 on a laptop, you might as well get a Macbook, but if you don't want to spend that much, you'll have to go with Windows.

    Its the same in the tablet/mobile space. You can get huge range of Android devices with different capabilities (and different carriers), and with Apple you've got one device on two carriers (finally).

    I still think The Android Market is more developer friendly than Apples, but I definitely think its not as polished in terms of usability and gobal availability.

    Thanks for the tips about tablets, that's basically what I was planning on... My goal is to find one of these:

    http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=934782

    or this:

    http://www.gadgets-guide.com/leader-...eview-2011-02/

    When I was in Beijing in September we wandered around Zhongguancun for a whole day with zero luck, they only had crappy resistive-touch Android 1.5 devices. I'm hoping I'll have better luck this time, otherwise I guess I'll just have to go to Shenzen myself. :)
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  10. #30 Re: Android mobile platform 
    C-Moto Guru Serpentza's Avatar
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    I'm looking to buy the new HTC Hetro

    P.S What really bugs me about apple in general is their lack of support for their old products, I bought a 3rd Gen Itouch for my girlfriend, she lost the nice little leather cover I'd bought with it, when I tried to get some sort of replacement it was a no go, basically as soon as the new itouch / iproduct comes out, they immediately stop supporting their old products, it's evidently a sneaky way to force people into buying the new version. These things are like a fashion statement more than anything else, so no one wants to be seen with an iphone 3 anymore and soon the ipad will be "so last season"... bloody fashion image gayness should never have invaded the gadget market!
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