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  1. #11 Re: New newbie in Shanghai 
    C-Moto Senior braillce's Avatar
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    euphonius,

    I just wanted to know I wasn't the only one foreigner told he can get a A plate which would have been highly suspicious.

    U're right I decided quite fast on this 250 Raptor Regal bike, but it's my 1st bike above 125cc, and I don't have very accurate needs since almost no moto experience. I'm sure I'll like it. If any wrong I'll tune it...

    I'll follow up here and let u know how things went with this shop, after I get (hopefully successfully) controlled by cops, and how's the bike behaving.

    Thank u, and milton for ur help.

    Fred,

    Recently things got worse regarding these "outside ring" plates, I know from those sources that:

    (CCTV)
    If parked in the inner ring, bikes with no inner plates can be confiscated by police, I don't know how u can get it back then.

    (moto shop owner & different drivers)
    If driving inside the inner ring, u only expose urself to a 200 RMB fine, but the bike may be confiscated for 24 to 48 hours, u can get it back after at the police station. Fine & confiscation depends chiefly on the cop u face and ur attitude.

    (moto shop owner)
    If the bike's plate is from X, they can send the bike to X if they want and u can only get it back in X (reason why not too far away plates are still a good investment).

    (me driving 4 years inside ring with no plate)
    It's only police "tolerance" that gets softer after 8, on week ends, and away from the "hot spots" (xujiahue, people square, xintiandi, etc...), the closer from the ring the better, but u legally CAN'T be inside without inner ring plates.

    Regardless of when, while most cops won't even look at u and while some will kindly answer u if u ask ur way, if u end up stuck front of the wrong one he'll give u all the trouble he can, run straight to u, chase u if u evade, hit u if u evade too close.
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  2. #12 Re: New newbie in Shanghai 
    Senior C-Moto Guru euphonius's Avatar
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    Dear Fred,

    I've seen plenty of guys riding waidi plated bikes inside the inner ring, but they are taking chances. They tend to slink through smaller streets, and avoid major throughfares. Then again, all the juiced-up scooters blazing through town don't even bother with legal plates, and are brazenly illegal. Cops don't seem even to flinch.

    There's no way that 6,000 rmb will buy you anything but a fake plate or a waidi plate or a fake waidi plate, which is a bigger guarantee of trouble should the police decide to crack down. At least with a genuine yellow 沪C plate, which allows you to ride anywhere OUTSIDE the inner ring, your worst-case scenario inside the ring is probably a 200 RMB fine. You'd have to rack up a lot of those before it cost you more than 42,000 for a 沪A plate!

    As for how to ride in forbidden places like the gaojia and major avenues: 1) be foreign, 2) tuck in behind other vehicles so you are not visible to traffic police during red lights, 3) choose your route through intersections so as not to be within arm's reach of the traffic police, 4) look the other way as if you didn't notice when you know they are signaling for you to stop. There are plenty of places to get on the gaojia where there is little or no control. You might get stopped once you are there and riding through central Shanghai, but generally they just tell you to get off, though I think it helps to be a foreigner. It's also pretty easy to get on the expressways if you have a big enough bike, don't take "no" for an answer, and squeeze past the closed gate. Be polite, and don't argue. Act confused, or just say, in Chinese, "it's okay, I can look after my own safety" while you roll on. There's rarely a problem getting OFF the expressways; it's getting on that is slightly confrontational. I'm not sure I'd want to ride a 125 or even a 250 on the expressways, however.

    good luck and cheers
    jkp
    Shanghai
    2010 JH600 "Merkin Muffley" (in Shanghai)
    2000 KLR650 "Feezer Ablanalp" (in California)
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  3. #13 Re: New newbie in Shanghai 
    C-Moto Guru Fred's Avatar
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    Thanks a lot for the answers guys.

    For some strange reason I thought it was legal to ride with a waidi plate downtown during the weekends, well...

    Anyway I didn't really plan to go on the gaojia with a 125, but below them, on the Yan'an for example. I'll need to start checking which streets are legally ok for bikes, damned... ;-))
    Euphonius, would you know the price range for a real waidi (yellow) plate of a city close to Shanghai (Suzhou, Hangzhou) ? Just to check what the guys at the Honda shop are telling me.

    Brice, I don't even want to know how do you know they will hit you if you're trying to evade and they are close... ;-))

    Last question guys : the inner ring refers to which street/gaojia/expressway : the waihuan (A20) or the neihuan (Zhongshan lu) ? Literally speaking inner is nei, so I think I know, but just want to confirm.
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  4. #14 Re: New newbie in Shanghai 
    C-Moto Guru milton's Avatar
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    I'd like to clarify a couple things:
    1. Waidi plate is not legally allowed at all to enter Shanghai, let alone the inner ring. This regulation has been rigoriously enforced during the World Expo, which is still going on now. Some of my Chinese friends with waidi plate had to be very creative in finding a way in last few times when we toured around getting outside of Shanghai. (Getting out is much easier than coming back in). Luckily the Expo has less than a month to go.
    2. Inner ring has never been a demarcation of any kind as far as motorcycles are concerned. The range of allowed access for 沪C plate depends on the district you want to go, and not on inside of outside of the inner ring. For example, sometimes the inner ring cuts through a district, such as LuWan, in which case even 沪C is not officially allowed on that section of the inner ring.

    Hope these points help.
    Cheers!
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  5. #15 Re: New newbie in Shanghai 
    C-Moto Guru Fred's Avatar
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    Hey Brice, do you have some news from the Suzuki shop about the plates, do you know how long it will take them to get the plates ?

    I went today to this shop, just to check what they have, and they told me the same thing about the price(RMB 44,000 for the yellow A plates) and the process. They said I could sell the plates back to them when I'll be leaving China, at the price then (maybe lower, maybe higher). But I figure that if I want to sell the bike too, I'd rather sell the whole, and not a bike without plates.

    I must admit I liked their GSX 125. Great, one more 125 bike to choose from, between the Honda Storm, the Honda CBF, the Yamaha YBR and now this one !
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  6. #16 Re: New newbie in Shanghai 
    C-Moto Senior Wrangler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by braillce View Post
    Hey to all.

    My name is Brice.

    I'm a French webdesigner in Shanghai since 5 years, and I have one question.

    I got my E license recently and I'm about to buy a Raptor Regal (street) 250cc with a yellow A plate in the Suzuki moto shop Pubei Rd next of the BWM moto store.

    Because they're the only shop saying they can provide a A plate for foreigners, I fear there's trouble.

    There was an American guy buying a Raptor Regal (but a cruiser) too @ this shop, today, who referred me to this forum, he didn't seem to worry at all, but I am.

    So here's the question:

    Did any foreigner here ever bought a A plate + bike @ this Suzuki shop Pubei Rd and knows if it's no scam?

    Cause the plate a big deal of money (for me), and cause u can only figure out if it's cool or not when the 1st cop stops u and check the plate #.

    I only paid 1000RMB deposit yet...

    THANKS
    Hey Brice, that was me getting the Raptor 250. I already saw the plate on the bike and I should be getting my bike tomorrow or the day after, depending on the weather. I bought the bike on 10/4 and they started the registration process on the 8th. When you saw me I was passing them my passport and temporary residence permit. I had my driver, a very sharp shanghainese negotiate with them and the process seems legit. Basically they had to transfer the plate to their name, then to my name with the final plate name under me, hence the need for my proof of residency and the need for a chinese name. If you want you can hold off a little while and see if I get into trouble, since I paid for it already. Ha. I will take a look at the paperwork and let you know.

    The police are checking for plates. One checkpoint is at Maoming Lu and Changle Lu and they check around 5 to 8pm during rush hour. Many places are not allowing non-shanghai plates to get gas anymore. There are signs at the gas station and this is the new law. The communist government is smart. They may not be able to catch you but they can control whether you get gas or not.

    Also, supposedly non-plated bikes will get towed and impounded (but I would only worry about that if you see the yellow tow trucks with other bikes on them).

    From my understanding any bike over 80 cc needs a yellow plate. Under 80cc is blue plate. I have heard the figure at 50cc but it doesn't matter to me since I am going to be riding 250cc so it's a yellow plate for sure. Yellow plates I have been quoted 42-44k. Blue plates are half but non-transferrable.

    The other fees were the local tax (I can't remember the amount but I think 10-13%) and various other fees. When I almost got my plate from the Yamaha dealership for my scooter I was quoted the same fees so I felt pretty confident there wasn't anything strange going on.

    I do believe the shop has some back channels to get things done as I asked them if I could modify my bike and pass the government bike inspection (every 2 years). They said I could modify it as I wished and they could take the bike to get inspected for me and it would pass. I would take, of course, is a fee to pay them. In theory, modifications to the bike, especially lights, horns, and exhausts, are prohibited.

    Hope this helps...
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  7. #17 Re: New newbie in Shanghai 
    C-Moto Senior Wrangler's Avatar
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    Oh Yes, to add. My scooter was impounded recently for a parking violation. I had a lot of trouble getting it out, since I didn't have plates or a drivers license. I had to get someone to help me otherwise it may have taken 20 days or more to get my scooter back. Rumor has it things are going to get worse for non-plated vehicles AFTER the expo since there law enforcement will have more time on their hands. (Plus SH gov needs new sources of revenue to line their pockets, huh).
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  8. #18 Re: New newbie in Shanghai 
    Senior C-Moto Guru euphonius's Avatar
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    Wrangler makes an important point about legal registration by foreigners -- the vehicle management bureau computers accept only chinese names, not foreign names, so you have to have a legal document showing your legal name in chinese. this is a problem if you have just a foreign passport and a residence permit, since the residence permit only repeats your foreign name, not your Chinese name, if you have one. Some people have managed to use their police registration papers, which for the convenience of the police will list your (optional) Chinese name in addition to your foreign name and passport number, thus linking your two names so the vehicle management bureau will accept that you are one in the same person. The best form of ID for this is the Shanghai Residence Card, which is the closest thing to a "hukou" for a foreigner. It's not too difficult to get, but few foreigners even know about them, or how to get them. I've covered this in some detail in a separate thread, which anyone registering a bike in Shanghai should probably read.

    good luck and cheers...
    jkp
    Shanghai
    2010 JH600 "Merkin Muffley" (in Shanghai)
    2000 KLR650 "Feezer Ablanalp" (in California)
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  9. #19 Re: New newbie in Shanghai 
    C-Moto Senior braillce's Avatar
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    @ wrangler,

    I was hoping u would show up and let me know how things are going for u.

    Thanks for following up.

    U're right, I'll wait a little bit before to give them more $, and check carefully for ur following posts.

    Since u already paid ;)



    @ euphonius,

    The Suzuki shop was ok with just my Chinese E license for making the plate.

    My Chinese name comes from my Alien Employment Permit delivered by my company, this AEP was required for me to make that E License though, so the Shanghai card is a workable though little known option for who has no AEP and wants to get a Driving License or a Vehicle Plate.

    The shop won't even require to see ur Driving E/D license if u present an official ID doc with ur Chinese name though...
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  10. #20 Re: New newbie in Shanghai 
    C-Moto Noob
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    Bits of misinformation here in the thread...

    Some clarification:

    Blue plate - *cannot* be transferred to car plate, cannot carry passengers. Must drive in Bike lane.
    Yellow plate - can be transferred to become a car plate, can carry a passenger. Must drive in car lane.

    沪A is the only plate type (blue / yellow) that can legally drive inside Shanghai all areas.
    沪C can only drive on the outside of the outer ringround - so Minhang, places like that.

    Driving any waidi plate is illegal inside Shanghai.
    No ringroad or freeway driving for motorbikes, only G roads if you want to go out of the city.

    Consequences -

    No plate + no licence - you're really fucked.

    No plate:
    Accident - you're fucked.
    Police stop - bike confiscated, may go to jail and be deported, depending if you get your taiwanese girlfriend to give policeman lip. 3 guesses to whom I refer..

    Waidi plate:
    Accident.. variable.
    Police stop - fine 200rmb. Bike possibly confiscated if they're feeling obnoxious but can get back within short period of time and some running around.

    Proper plate:
    Accident.. variable, but you'll have more law on your side.
    Police stop - need papers, will be ok.


    You'll also need to have a Employment Permit older than 1 year to register for the plate / bike.

    And yeah, totally not the first foreigner to do this, we were doing this 15 years ago here legally.
    Ask Butch about his bike(s)...
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