Both Thailand and India set to produce CBR250R by Spring 2011!

[ZMC888]

News just in, the Honda CBR250R, pictured below:

Has just gone into production in Thailand, and is due to go into production in India in spring 2011. As yet no date has been set for Chinese production.

* Overall length × Overall width × Overall height (m): 2.035 × 0.720 × 1.125
* Wheelbase (m): 1.370
* Ground clearance (m): 0.145
* Seat height (m): 0.780
* Curb weight (kg): 161 (STD) 165 (ABS)
* Riding capacity (No. of people): 2
* Minimum turning radius (m): 2.5
* Engine type: CS250RE, liquid-cooled 4-stroke DOHC single cylinder
* Power (rumored) 17.3KW (23.3hp)
* Torque (rumored) 20.7Nm (15.2ft-lbs)
* Displacement (cmc): 249.3
* Bore × Stroke (mm): 76.0 × 55.0
* Compression ratio: 10.7
* Fuel supply system: Programmed fuel injection system (PGM-FI)
* Starter type: Self-starter
* Ignition type: Full-transistor battery ignition
* Lubricating type: Wet sump
* Fuel tank capacity (L): 13
* Clutch type: Wet multi-plate with coil springs
* Transmission type: Constant mesh 6-speed return
* Tire size: Front 110/70-17M/C; Rear 140/70-17M/C
* Brake type: Front - Hydraulic disk; Rear - Hydraulic disk
* Suspension type: Front - Telescopic; Rear - Swing arm (Pro-link suspension system)
* Frame type: Diamond

If I were Sundiro Honda I'd be in serious discussions with Japan. (hint hint) If the pricing was right, (Price comparative to India and Thailand) they could sell quite a few.

The all-new CBR250R model is powered by a newly-developed liquid-cooled 249cc 4-stroke 4-valve single-cylinder DOHC engine coupled with a six-speed transmission, and that meets Euro 3 emission standards. This is thanks to Honda’s Programmed Fuel Injection System (PGM-FI) as well as an oxygen sensor, accompanied by a catalyzer fitted inside the exhaust pipe.

Safety wise, the machine packs Combined ABS (a world first for a 250cc-class road sports model), which makes the bike more stable by bringing together a Combined Brake System (CBS) and an Anti-Lock Brake System (ABS).

“What was on our minds during the development of new CBR? It was to realize an attractive quarter model that can meet the demands of the times to come and provide customers all over the world with joy and at an affordable price. What we aimed at was the 'Sport Quarter for One World, CBR250R.’” a statement fro Honda reads.

The 2011 CBR250R will now enter production in Thailand, with sales launching in November. It will be launched as a global model for export to a wide range of countries such as the ASEAN countries, Japan, Europe, North America, and Australia. In the company’s home market, namely Japan, the CBR250R is scheduled to begin sales in the spring of 2011.

Honda Motorcycle and Scooter India will also start production of the CBR250R next spring and extend sales from India to South America. Pricing, which varies depending on the market, is yet to be announced.

[ZMC888]

My own thoughts....in terms of Asia and South America, and in terms of Western Europe and North America. This bike in each market will have a different effect and use.

In terms of Asia and South America

A lovely machine, perfect for Chinese roads, I imagine it has excellent handling, and great fuel economy and reliability. Really what a lot of people are looking for, a cheap to run forgiving bike which will be more than quick enough on most Asian roads. I want one now, for the right price. If it is available in China it would certainly be my number one choice in China, and beats the YBR250 in all departments, more power, more torque and better looks. Many people will love the fact they have a bike with EFI and ABS too! With the full fairing it looks like a lot more bike than it really is, and that is perfect for Asian markets, ride a 'top of the line' domestically made economical machine, with easy to source parts, but look like you are riding something that has been expensively imported.

In terms of Western Europe and North America

No matter how clever the engine is, it just isn't a twin. With Honda's history of great punchy twins it's a real shame that they couldn't make a lovely fuel injected parallel twin. In this regard this bike probably will not out sell the Kawasaki Ninja 250R, in the US at least. I ride for fun, multiple cylinders sound better, it's that simple, thus I enjoy the ride more. In the late 80's early 90's we had the fantastic 'baby blade' which had a lot more personality and excitement than this dreary commuter. Maybe CBF250R would have been a more suitable name? To be fair I think the CBR250R is marginally better than the Yamaha YBR250. It has looks from the similar design board as Honda’s VFR1200F, but that bike has not proven itself with popularity or sales. But targeting the Ninja 250R and then building a something marginally better than a YBR250? The whole concept seems strangled by international, particularly EU emission rules which seem to be sanitizing and stripping motorcycles of their power and individuality, and Honda's own lack of imagination. I've gotta be honest the power-to-weight is pretty bad. 17KW and 160+kg, not so good. Does a bike that cannot exceed 125km/h (80mph) really need 'insurance cost increasing' almost full fairing? Also why do manufacturers always think a small displacement bike must be a commuter? A powerful lightweight twin or four cylinder performance machine, why not?

Conclusion

I can't figure out if Honda are targeting experienced Asian riders or entry-level western riders, it seems Honda will fail, at least for one group, it just fails to excite on paper, at least for western markets. A Ninja 250R to me is a better bike, a more powerful twin with more character. In many places a 250 just isn't needed anyway, most people learn on a YBR125 or CG125, then go on to a CBF500 or something without bothering with a 250. However if the pricing is right it exactly suits developing countries. So Honda have basically partially shot themselves in the foot, they could have made a bike that would appeal to both markets, in the end they've made a bike which will only appeal to one. It needed to be a 20-25KW twin, but it didn't need a full fairing or ABS!

[MJH]

That is a global bike and it will take a share of the Ninja market. The Ninja is offered at just about $4,000.00 in the USA and its a breakeven bike, made in Thailand and retail priced at cost. Because it is a starter and the owners move up bikes getting up into the ZX line its a starter.

That bike is coming to the USA and it will have to be priced under $4,000.00 to take its share. They will price it low and then move these new riders up into the CBR line.

It’s not just a single it’s a twin cam 4-valve so the sound will not be typical, it will not sound like a CRF230. It will be smoother and more purposeful sounding.

With it’s 17inch rims it looks nimble.




In the USA the Ninja has been the number one spot in highest unit sales for the past six years. The markets choice for price as it’s the most bike for the money.

Since the only real competition is the Hyosung GT250 and that bike being Chinese made and not supported well, but definitely competitive, Honda is making the right move on this. The Hyosung is a feeder also it feeds up to the GT650. Then consider that scenario does not exist in china does it? But Hyosung is making the GT250 in china and then the GT650 in Korea so they can work that in markets were they can sell both but not in those that they cannot sell entry and mid level.

The thing is the Chinese factories are stuck on volume and in that just mass producing. Sundiro could have been the feeder for the CBR but so can Hero and beginning in Thailand may be to simply insure they can get the Ninja’s market on it's home turf first? They are not that concerned with Kawasaki in China because they are not there.

So here we go….the CBR is selling at Honda USA today and $3,999.00 and made in Thailand.

[ZMC888]

twin cam 4-valve so the sound will not be typical

4 valve per cylinder doesn't make a lot of difference at this size in terms of power or sound. With all the anti-bike emissions and noise standards it will sound somewhere between a sewing machine and a Briggs and Stratton. Although sometimes bigger 4 valve singles at 400cc-650cc can feel 'twinnish' at low torque, although the sound isn't as good as a twin. I still really feel Honda have messed up with this being a single.

They are not that concerned with Kawasaki in China because they are not there.

True, but Yamaha are here. Yamaha have sold quite a few of their YBR250s even at their boneheaded 25,000 RMB price ($4,000 US). I think a Chinese made YBR250 is worth 15,000 RMB, and the CBR250R 17,000 RMB.

[jape]

Gonna be $7500 plus in Aus. but relatively speaking just $500 more than the Hyosung GT250R and the Kawasaki Ninja 250 R will be $7,999. Hmm, which one to get, lol.

[td_ref]

lovely looks, why can't Honda China produce it?

[ChinaV]

Why does China lose face over this? It's just one of hundreds of models that are not available in China. I can understand why you want one, it's a nice bike, but even if it was made here it would still cost ¥25-30k. And just because something is made here, doesn't mean parts and service are easily obtainable. Also consider, it may be perfect for many of the roads you like to ride on, but for the vast majority of infrastructure and traffic conditions in China, it's hardly and ideal choice.

I rode around on CrazyCarl's Ninja 250 for a day, and we talked about how great and practical the original Ninja 250 is. Kawasaki milked 20+ years out of that design with only minor changes. I think it's interesting that other manufacturers never really challenged Kawasaki in the 250 sportbike class. Honda had the 250 Interceptor, but it came and went in only three short years. Probably because 600cc is the de-facto entry level machine in North America, and sales of 250's have never kept up with the 600cc class. Now you have emerging markets where engine size and power are not so important, and Honda is probably hoping they can cash in on the "bling" oriented consumers. I'm sure they will be happy if they grab a few common sense, entry level riders in N.A. and Europe as well.

Cheers!
ChinaV

[ZMC888]

Why does China lose face over this?

Joke! Most people in China love cars = they don't really care anyway. But Thailand at the end of the day has been chosen to produce them NOT China. Changed name of thread, was a bit crap anyway.

but for the vast majority of infrastructure and traffic conditions in China, it's hardly and ideal choice.

Adventure touring aside, what is the best bike for Chinese roads then?

but even if it was made here it would still cost ¥25-30k

Not necessarily. Although that's likely I'll admit. A Chinese joint venture boss will see the Thai version sells in the US for $4000, then he'll do the conversion and try to sell the Chinese made version in China for ¥26,600. But obviously a Chinese version would be cheaper to produce, made lower quality with cheaper labor costs etc, also without shipping costs and as many taxes and being domestic would not be unfeasible for it to sell for ¥15-20K, especially with potential export markets as the Thai factory may not be able to keep up with developing country demand.

doesn't mean parts and service are easily obtainable.

Having owned Sundiro Hondas in the past the parts are available easily if pre-ordered. Usually I prefer my own mechanic to order the parts, as I've never had a problem with the bikes in warranty.

[ChinaV]

Adventure touring aside, what is the best bike for Chinese roads then?

There is no "perfect" China bike, other than whatever bike you are riding at the time.

I think if you look at the vast majority of riding stories and styles on MyChinaMoto, they tend to favor bikes with more comfort and suspension. I'm all for a good sport-bike, but the constant construction and destruction of roads here is not so good for tight suspensions and cramped riding styles. I'm fully aware that adventure touring/dual-sport bikes are not everyones cup of tea, but many people seem to end up on them after a few good beatings in the Chinese countryside. Passion drives our perception of what is perfect, and you're obviously passionate about tackling the twisties, thus making a ¥15k sport-bike the best choice for your needs. But living in China is all about compromises, and the reality today is, you have no choice but to enjoy riding something you would probably never consider purchasing if you didn't live here. With rare exceptions for those who can afford outrageously expensive imports.

Not necessarily. Although that's likely I'll admit. A Chinese joint venture boss will see the Thai version sells in the US for $4000, then he'll do the conversion and try to sell the Chinese made version in China for ¥26,600. But obviously a Chinese version would be cheaper to produce, made lower quality with cheaper labor costs etc, also without shipping costs and as many taxes and being domestic would not be unfeasible for it to sell for ¥15-20K, especially with potential export markets as the Thai factory may not be able to keep up with developing country demand.

Let's be clear, the ABS version is not $3999 (¥26,600) it's $4499 (¥29,900). So now you're talking about having a special "China" version that's more like the other 25 million pieces of shit they make here every year. If India can make them to spec for ¥22,000/¥25,700, I doubt China can do much better. Labor is roughly the same, and there are very few tax advantages for companies operating in China these days.

If China had a "real" CBR250R for ¥15k... no brainer, I would buy one in a second. But it's not ever going to happen, as Honda probably doesn't want to risk their reputation and intellectual property by having this bike made in here.

Cheers!
ChinaV

[ZMC888]

I'm all for a good sport-bike, but the constant construction and destruction of roads here is not so good for tight suspensions and cramped riding styles. I'm fully aware that adventure touring/dual-sport bikes are not everyones cup of tea,

Sport bikes? I don't ride a sport bike. I ride road bikes with neutral riding position, in fact pretty much the same riding position as your bikes, other than legs and feet being slightly more bent and feet higher, with a normal amount of suspension travel. The bike in my avatar is my CBF150, just a regular road bike with a pointless bling Honda bikini fairing. To me a Suzuki Hayabusa is a sports bike, yuk. The CBR250R you'll find also isn't a sports bike, just a sporty looking road bike.

I like dual sport bikes, because they are lightweight compared to other bikes, being based on dirt bikes which makes them accelerate quickly so give you good power to weight. I know you're gonna hate to hear this but road bikes go OK off-road, and go OK on shitty roads. Also there is no compromise on a nice twisty well made road. Dual sport bikes exactly because of their longer travel softer suspension and tires are a compromise at the one thing I enjoy; going around corners on well sealed roads! You and crazy Carl may have written your rule book which states: 'China should only be ridden toured on a dual sport bike, because of the state of the roads in some places is poor'. Although we have people who have ridden to Berlin on a YBR125, and one of my friends made in to Lhasa in 2006 and all around T**et on a CMX250 clone, and this year went to Kunming on his 08 bike which is the same as mine. There are many other examples.

If India can make them to spec for ¥22,000/¥25,700

Yeah OK, you're right. Prices for the CBF150 and the Unicorn (Indian CBF150) match up exactly 64,000 Rupees (9,900 RMB) for that, so ¥22,000/¥25,700 would be likely for China. Less than your original ¥25-30k. More than my ¥15-20. However if you can pick up good joint venture 125cc-150cc singles in China for ¥10,000, and reasonable 250cc bikes for ¥12,000-15,000, Honda aren't gonna sell much of these even if they are available.