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  1. #1 Auxiliary tank for Jialing JH600B sidecar 
    Shanghai'ed Shanghaifingers's Avatar
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    Okay people, lets talk aux. fuel tanks. Since my Jialing 600B has such absolutely horrible fuel mileage i guess I have no other option but look into aux fuel tank. Now of course I could just haul a jerry can but what the fun in that.... No, my creative side wants to build or have someone build a Aux. tank out of aluminum to be mounted in a weird lower space in the sidecar. Because of rules about refilling fuel cans I was thinking of also creating a refueling pipe and fuel door so the fuel attendant will fill the aux tank with little trouble. A 12 volt fuel pump will supply the main tank on demand via a switch.

    Anyone know anyone in China who could handle building a rally quality custom fit tank?????
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  2. #2 Re: Tired of seeing my last thread at the top so I am writing another one 
    Danger, Will Robinson! Lao Jia Hou's Avatar
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    You can ask Jim Bryant at Classic Sidecars (http://www.bmwsidecar.com/). His custom fabrication is second to none and, of course, he has a deep understanding of sidecars.

    My own JH600B is sitting at his shop. Therefore, he has a sample bike to do the measurements for you.

    Jim's a member of this forum, but it'd probably be quickest to simply fire him an email, or give him a call.
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  3. #3 Re: Tired of seeing my last thread at the top so I am writing another one 
    Administrator-tron CrazyCarl's Avatar
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    Question is, extra fuel pump or not?

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  4. #4 Re: Tired of seeing my last thread at the top so I am writing another one 
    grumpy old sod jape's Avatar
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    I don't know about that as a solution, a lot of extra weight which means even less performance and efficiency on a relatively low cc bike that is working inefficiently anyway.

    How come you are getting such bad fuel performance? Have you talked to Jim about it, are all the side-car folk getting the same? It should just be pretty much engine capacity against weight. Even my old car full of crap on the back seats and with a boot full of tools and fuel cans and the engine management system stuffed only loses 10% against previous. Ethanol mixed fuel seems to cut a bit more too so now unless I am really broke I buy ordinary unleaded and it evens out.

    Have you looked carefully at all the carby settings, fuel lines? Not trying to be smart, you may have done all this, but anomalous fuel use is exacerbated by tyre choice, loose chain, extra weight and so on, especially if the weight to power ratio is on the edge anyway. What about gearing, is that optimum for cruising at the speeds you use? My car (sorry to use that as an example but it is a similar idea and I monitor it carefully on a budget) cruises at 90 kph at a much more fuel efficient range than just ten kph more and at 100 kph is far better than at 110 kph. At 90 kph cruising when I can safely do that, I get a good twenty to FIFTY percent more mileage depending on routes and conditions. I have monitored this for a few years now on a strict budget.

    And again not trying to teach granma to suck eggs or suggesting you are lead-footed but my GF had a smaller, lighter car yet used as much fuel as me. She is a heavy foot, both pedals, always racing off then braking, driver. That is a waste of energy as she never got anyway quicker than I do!

    Can you LOSE weight by taking off side-car or if you use that a lot, replacing panels with aluminium, maybe even rebuild the sidecar, get some lighter wheels and all that?
    Kinlon R/T KBR JL200GY-2
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  5. #5 Re: Tired of seeing my last thread at the top so I am writing another one 
    Danger, Will Robinson! Lao Jia Hou's Avatar
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    Jim has tested the JH600B so he'd be a good resource to chat up about the mileage, etc.

    I've limited experience with the JH600B, so far, as it is damn cold in Beijing & I am a pansy. Jim, however, rides year round.

    My own JH600B had a serious stalling problem. It literally stalled at most traffic lights and on most down shifts. Jialing replaced a couple of sensors and it seems to have resolved the issue.

    Without any data, but just a gut feeling, I'd guess that a poorly performing bike (as was the case with my stalling) would also have poor mileage. The bike has EFI and an ECU, so some weak links can create havoc.

    According to Jialing, the JH600B fuel efficiency should be better than 5 litres / 100 km.

    I do recall Jim commenting once that the rear storage area in the JH600B sidecar is sizable, albeit a little "odd". He had a few ideas. You may wish to discuss some options with him, directly.
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  6. #6 Re: Tired of seeing my last thread at the top so I am writing another one 
    C-Moto Senior
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    Thanks Richard,
    Most every sidecar I've seen gets about the same fuel consumption. About 30 ( 8 liters per 100 kms) mpg no matter if it's a big Harley or a minuscule Royal Enfield. If you're not getting 30 mpg, probably something is wrong.

    Regds,
    Jim
    www.bmwsidecar.com
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  7. #7 Re: Tired of seeing my last thread at the top so I am writing another one 
    Shanghai'ed Shanghaifingers's Avatar
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    Yes to the fuel pump question from CC... I guess I am getting around 8-9 ltr per 100km. basically around 200 Km per tank. The tank is 19ltr right? I was really hoping for better. I would like to be able to keep up fuel wise with the biker touring bikes. Also I like to build (or have built in this case) cool gadgets....

    Well Jimbo, what do you think.... that little depression in the bottom of the Jailing tub in the trunk... I was thinking of filling that area up with a fuel tank(cell). You guys work with aluminum? What do you think about an eternal fuel door flush mounted to the outside of the sidecar. I am obviously I thinking the aux tank to be permanent.

    I have an external fuel pump that runs on 12v, but its kind of low volume. idea was while riding when i start to get low on fuel(1 or 2 bars) then I would which on the the transfer put and the fuel would transfer to the main tank while driving and thus keeping me on the road.

    steps:

    1. design and fab. the aluminum tank

    2. design and fab. the refueling point and system(keeping in mind the problems with filling fuel cans in China)

    3. Modify the main tank to allow for the fuel transfer. My pump can be flush mounted anywhere and as the ability to pump in either direction.(handy if they won't fill you
    aux tank or if you get a bit of bad gas)
    4. and then find a way to pay for it all
    Last edited by Shanghaifingers; 01-12-2011 at 04:38 AM. Reason: additional information
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  8. #8 Re: Tired of seeing my last thread at the top so I am writing another one 
    Senior C-Moto Guru euphonius's Avatar
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    'fingers,

    nice thread. at some point you might want to redo the headline so that this information is easier to find. How about: Auxiliary tank for Jialing JH600B sidecar?

    good luck squeezing more mileage out of that chariot!
    jkp
    Shanghai
    2010 JH600 "Merkin Muffley" (in Shanghai)
    2000 KLR650 "Feezer Ablanalp" (in California)
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  9. #9 Re: Tired of seeing my last thread at the top so I am writing another one 
    Motorcycle Addict chinabiker's Avatar
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    Hi folks

    can't resist to add my two fen to this topic

    Not that I am an expert for gasoline tanks, but I know that these are pretty complex items.
    I have some experience in filling gasoline carrying rail cars - don't laugh, please

    There are several issues to consider very carefully:

    You cannot use just any pump to feed the main tank from the additional barrel. The usual fuel pumps for FI engines operate at pressure levels, which are way higher than useful for feeding. Also, the pump must be made of fuel resistant material.

    The extra tank must have air vent and bleeding, ideally labyrinth shaped to avoid water entering.

    You must use real fuel hoses, UV resistant, to run from the extra to the main tank.

    Consider very carefully where to route the hoses (vibrations, sharp edges, protection against physical impact)

    You must have over-fill protection of the main tank. Not easy to achieve as you have to modify the original tank.

    Don't forget to add dry run protection for the feed pump. Nothing worse than an overheating pump in a gas tank which carries fumes.

    Very carefully examine how to let the feeding line enter the main tank. Again, you have to modify the original tank.

    Material and manufacturing method of the additional tank is another point to carefully think of. Un-treated Aluminium is not the perfect material for a fuel tank. Avoid weldings as much as you can. Stainless steel is probably the best material, but not easy to deal with.

    Consider tank insulation to avoid condensation inside the tank.


    Not that I want to mess up your plans
    Andy
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  10. #10 Re: Tired of seeing my last thread at the top so I am writing another one 
    Duct tape savant felix's Avatar
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    Very interesting thread indeed! Andy that's some pretty useful info, you're a handy guy to have on the forum! Good luck with the project shanghaifingers, i hope it comes together. I'll certainly be watching this thread.
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