petrol run or blue plate run ?

**jape** · 02-09-2011, 10:01 PM

I have no moral high ground here, a very chequered past (and present) with incidents that were not always legal and other 'government sanctioned' incidents I since learnt to regret. I also believe in the right of the individual to act as they see fit, including their own understanding or interpretation of laws and regulations concerning their own life and path through it. That is because i believe in personal responsibility and the consequence of actions also.

When there is a local industry, indigenous and thriving, in making plates for the purpose of getting petrol then you are simply participating in and being allowed into the variant of the culture you live amongst that also accepts that legality can be interpreted for the good of the individual as weighed up against the whole (as would be demonstrated by blind obedience). A common dynamic and theme, often used to justify what is the beginning of anarchic revolution and usually a position taken without much justification purely for personal reward and ease.

To my mind the sole just and acceptable reasoning for purchasing illegal plates, which is fraud against a regime that has accepted and tolerates you as a foreign body within it, is the measure by which you feel a genuine part of that society. Outside of that it is just selfishness. It is also anarchistic and revolutionary on a global scale, the consequences of which are weighed on your soul, not your wallet. That does not make it just or acceptable, you are then consciously starting to live outside of social constraints and regimen. That is perhaps seen by you as the path to freedom and enlightenment, it may be so - but at the risk of being branded terrorist or revolutionary. These are NOT small matters however they may seem from your personal, small, perspective.

Freedom to move around, travel, do as you will? Won by the blood of many over all the generations of man, including the blood of innocents. It is a constant pattern in human behaviour, an equation. The blue plate is a statement that will cost you more than a few yuan. It is also deliberate, subversive and foolish for a foreigner not intelligent enough to think it through.

**dewsnap** · 02-10-2011, 02:16 AM

That last post is pretty deep man. I'm still trying to take it all in. I just came on here for a bit of local motorbike news and banter.

Now i'm not writing here to have a dig or speak out of turn, as Jape you're obviously a intelligent and thoughtful guy. But what i took from your post, is that i've been labelled a foolish foreigner, who has a small perspective, and all this chat about generations of blood just seems a bit hard to swallow and misplaced on a motorbike forum.

I only wanted to get back on the road. I'm fully aware of the risks involved with the fake plates, and i've thought about the consequences, but we are talking about China here man. Shanghai is a city where you can pay 50rmb to be released by the traffic cops without warning (this has happened on two occassions), a city where you can buy (fake) toxic cigarrettes outside bars, bootleg dvd's and luxury items are available for peanuts everywhere. This is happening whether we like it or not. I love China, and i'm not criticising at all, i simply feel i'm just trying to get by like everybody else is here, i'm surrounded by this system so i'm just playing the game, and i like to think that by doing so i'm not contributing to society's downfall. All of these things were happening long before i arrived, and think they're just part of the fabric of society. If that's wrong them i must be and if that makes me a narrow minded person then i guess i still have a lot to learn.

China's great for many reasons, and after 4 years of living here i conclude that if you go by your own business without hurting anybody else or causing any civil unrest you'll be fine to get by as you please. Just always bear in mind that the worst case scenario's here are severe.
10 years working a mine in Sichuan province or a bullet in the neck is always a great motivation to keep your shit in line.

**Jliebregts** · 02-10-2011, 04:30 AM

Ofcourse I am only using it for for fuel. I get your point euphonius, I am actually driving my bike with a helmet, so hopefully it save me from some pain. But I know how the law works, and that I have to pay a lot for the damage to the other person. But I accept the risk. I don't believe they are really going to check out my plates. If I tell them my papers are at home, because they don't have a computer in the car to check out those plates like they have in the western countries.

**jape** · 02-10-2011, 04:59 AM

"To my mind the sole just and acceptable reasoning for purchasing illegal plates, which is fraud against a regime that has accepted and tolerates you as a foreign body within it, is the measure by which you feel a genuine part of that society. Outside of that it is just selfishness."

You defended what you didn't have to defend, seems to me you qualify yourself as quoted.

And btw, a forum is just that, a forum - motorcycles may be the cause why come here, but that is not the end of it. Why should it be superficial? You will fit in fine by answering a syou now have! You can also ignore, respond angrily, add reasoned argument or leave as you choose.

You can debate, argue, even curse and swear a bit on this forum, it is reasonably mature and I am not sole moderator or arbiter so if you have real concerns you can have them dealt with. Some here have chatted up female robots, some have even shown compassion and feeling and been concerned for the whereabouts of missing members. It is an evolving social communication method, and if I have my way, will always become more than a simple 'twit' on twitter or message on farcebook. If you want a mindless and purely technical website, start one.

Originally Posted by dewsnap

That last post is pretty deep man. I'm still trying to take it all in. I just came on here for a bit of local motorbike news and banter.

Now i'm not writing here to have a dig or speak out of turn, as Jape you're obviously a intelligent and thoughtful guy. But what i took from your post, is that i've been labelled a foolish foreigner, who has a small perspective, and all this chat about generations of blood just seems a bit hard to swallow and misplaced on a motorbike forum.

I only wanted to get back on the road. I'm fully aware of the risks involved with the fake plates, and i've thought about the consequences, but we are talking about China here man. Shanghai is a city where you can pay 50rmb to be released by the traffic cops without warning (this has happened on two occassions), a city where you can buy (fake) toxic cigarrettes outside bars, bootleg dvd's and luxury items are available for peanuts everywhere. This is happening whether we like it or not. I love China, and i'm not criticising at all, i simply feel i'm just trying to get by like everybody else is here, i'm surrounded by this system so i'm just playing the game, and i like to think that by doing so i'm not contributing to society's downfall. All of these things were happening long before i arrived, and think they're just part of the fabric of society. If that's wrong them i must be and if that makes me a narrow minded person then i guess i still have a lot to learn.

China's great for many reasons, and after 4 years of living here i conclude that if you go by your own business without hurting anybody else or causing any civil unrest you'll be fine to get by as you please. Just always bear in mind that the worst case scenario's here are severe.
10 years working a mine in Sichuan province or a bullet in the neck is always a great motivation to keep your shit in line.

**dewsnap** · 02-10-2011, 06:06 AM

I get your point mate. I'm actually pretty new to the whole concept of chatting in forums, so maybe i'm a little over-sensitive. Ha.
I only came on here to get information about plates and licensing but i've since found the site to be a little more than that. People seem to be going out of their way to share info and are genuinely looking out for others, some of the links regarding the licensing process here in China have been outstanding. I've found it's really difficult to get reliable info about all things bike here so i've been hugely impressed with this site.
I certainly don't want any beef with proper memebers.
Take it easy dude.
Peace.

**ChinaV** · 02-10-2011, 06:11 AM

Originally Posted by dewsnap

i simply feel i'm just trying to get by like everybody else is here, i'm surrounded by this system so i'm just playing the game, and i like to think that by doing so i'm not contributing to society's downfall.

Very well stated...

The worst nightmare I ever had was being a motorcyclist in Shanghai... woke up screaming from that one.

Cheers!
ChinaV

**Jliebregts** · 02-10-2011, 06:18 AM

Haha I actually kinda like it driving around in the City.. Lot of friends from outside of China tell me are u crazy! The traffic in Shanghai is madness..

But ontopic: there are two options now: 46.000RMB for a blue license plate or a hunderd times less, it's up to u!

**euphonius** · 02-10-2011, 07:04 AM

Actually, to get all technical, 46,000 will get you a yellow plate, not a blue one. And (fingers and toes crossed here) it's a transferrable asset, used by the government to limit numbers. It is NOT a registration fee. I paid 42k for mine, and it was no easy thing to pull that trigger. But due to scarcity or whatever, it's maybe 46k now. Some have said closer to 50k.

Weird to think in these terms, but it's entirely possible I'll MAKE money off my yellow plates. Weirder still is the thought that as the bike depreciates, the plates appreciate. So over time the plates pay for the bike. Long live socialism with Chinese characteristics!!

Of course, I'm not banking on any of that.

Just sayin'...

**Jliebregts** · 02-10-2011, 07:38 AM

I'm not sure if that is entirelt true, because as I know the plates on cars don't get a higher value because officially u can't resell your plates right? I mean u calculate the costs of the plates when selling your bike or car but I don't see why the plate should get up in value

**euphonius** · 02-10-2011, 07:45 AM

Motorcycle plates sell freely on the open market, and in recent memory there have been no new batches of motorcycle plates issued by the authorities. A motorcycle plate can be transferred to a car, thus reducing by one the pool of tradable motorcycle plates in circulation. A car plate CAN be freely resold once in circulation, just not to a motorcyclist. The city issues a limited number of new car plates every month, at auction. For this reason, the price of a motorcycle plate has generally tracked the current auction price of new car plates being issued every monty by the authorities. Given that the number is actually flat or decreasing, eventually the value of a motorcycle plate could command a premium over a car plate, due to increasing scarcity.

I've not checked lately, but I believe Shanghai car plates are in the north 40s. There was a brief scare in November, when the price all but collapsed, but that apparently was a blip on the screen. In December and January they were right back up to old levels or higher. We all had little mycardial infarctions that month.

cheers
jkp