Loncin GN250

[euphonius]

Another great post, MJH. Companies like Loncin and Jialing have deep pockets nowadays, and great resources to work with. They can even partner up with the likes of BMW and AVL and many others. Yet, ironically, they have barely any idea how to make a motorcycle that anybody wants. They think, "If I have a BMW power plant" or "If I work with an Austrian designer" they world will beat a path to their door. But in fact none of that matters at all if they have zero understanding of their (potential) customers and what they need and want.

It's a bit like building a ball park in a remote corn field. No, they won't come. Not many, anyway. Except maybe those people who are near enough by that the cost of giving the benefit of the doubt is not great. Like buying a JH600 in China because it costs only 30k RMB compared to 180-220 RMB for "comparable" imported bikes. Except that they of course are not comparable.

Helllloooooooo Loncin! Helllllllooooo Jialing! Your (would-be) customers are pleading to have you get to know them!

cheers

[MJH]

I believe the answer for Loncin is right in front of them, that being if they have the rights to the engine: “then what to build around it” A clue would be a series…

But not just one series they actually should develop two, one around a cloned Honda NX250 engine that has been offered by other manufactures in china, that would be two lines one 250 and the other a 650.

The goal should be a universal frame that could support two drive trains… offering six models.

It is not that simple though, it would require them to identify multiple global markets as well as the differentiation in distribution and also retail within those. The objective is high quality, but also cost effective manufacturing. If affordable then different flavors of the same thing is not just tolerated, its embraced. BMW customers did not fully embrace that, to BMW the X-series was not successful and that could be because their customers want unique, they pay more for it.

Any offering of a 650 line has to be managed through distribution that takes the bike mainstream, in some instances the existing Loncin models are being offered next to major brands. But not at every retailer, some retailers are just offering entry level models, those are different markets.

It is getting close to the point were what is offered in certain markets in china are mirrored to markets in Europe, North America and others. That being if a retailer is offering major brands then that is were the higher line bikes must be presented. The one shot flagship will never carry them in, it is not enough to open that door.

However the six models would be…however the entire chain from engineering to production to distribution has to be synchronized…even though the markets are geographically disconnected, the market segments as buyers are not dissimilar.

[MJH]

A technician is a subordinate of engineers, the design and also support of the design, is the responsibility of engineering and done through communication and defined feedback procedures, I think they are often overtly self ingratiating. They wave banners of success prematurely and very often.

I think they do not fully test and or not for long enough, in some instances you as customers are testing a design and the feedback in that becomes very fragmented and not following protocol, that protocol has to be ingrained in technician and stem directly from engineering. The technicians should be testing and with diligence and the loop back should bring about changes that perfect a design. That interruption may come from the autocratic leadership often found in china, screaming no excuses when the excuses are in fact details that require more then their limited knowledge comprehends. That demanding brings about the false promises and in some cases sweeping it under the rug and then it comes back they simply deny its existence. The result is egocentric directors claiming great success and denying the ticking time bomb they forced to the market prematurely.

[lipsee]

Love the styling of the motard and I agree, those cast wheels are nice! But that front brake line routing is more than questionable. Can't think of one reason why it would be routed around the front....? Anybody??

perhaps just daring to be different,,after all its not there lives at stake!!!!

[ZMC888]

A big problem with many of these Chinese companies is if they think their product might be popular they then price up their product too high in an attempt to make an insane profit, thus losing their one and only advantage in the marketplace through greed.

[MJH]

The Chinese cannot manufacturer higher quality products the same way they manufacture the low quality products. A high quality product shares nothing with low quality products, they cannot use low quality components for a high quality motorcycle. The Japanese partners will not allow an electric component to be used that is not bench tested. They test and record all of the installed components, if they buy from a supplier they require demonstrated tolerances and if not adhered to they will change suppliers. If none exist then the part gets imported.

Every criteria required to manufacturer a better product cost more.

If it is totally new, then it really cost much more to make in every aspect at every step of the process.

If you buy what is legitimate and in that all new and tested, developed exclusively with high standards you will get a better product.

If you buy something that includes cheating the process at any level or stage, and believe they will not also cheat you your mistaken, because they will, part of being inept, immoral and incorrigible at any level corrupts everything at all levels, including the purchaser.

[Deom2i]

The Chinese cannot manufacturer higher quality products the same way they manufacture the low quality products. A high quality product shares nothing with low quality products, they cannot use low quality components for a high quality motorcycle. The Japanese partners will not allow an electric component to be used that is not bench tested. They test and record all of the installed components, if they buy from a supplier they require demonstrated tolerances and if not adhered to they will change suppliers. If none exist then the part gets imported.

Every criteria required to manufacturer a better product cost more.

If it is totally new, then it really cost much more to make in every aspect at every step of the process.

If you buy what is legitimate and in that all new and tested, developed exclusively with high standards you will get a better product.

If you buy something that includes cheating the process at any level or stage, and believe they will not also cheat you your mistaken, because they will, part of being inept, immoral and incorrigible at any level corrupts everything at all levels, including the purchaser.

Very True MJH, well said.

There are many Honda copy and they all confusion sometimes.
Loncin engines are copy of Honda, right? Does thats make Yingang copy of Loncin because Yingang also make honda copy of NX250??

From your experience which is the best 200 and 250cc Engine for Dirty Bikes with excellent performance and durability?

[MJH]

I have yet to see a motorcycle being offered that has Loncin water cooled 250 that mirrors the specs of the Honda NX25O I have only seen motorcycles that have a SOHC water cooled 250 that are made by Loncin and also the same scenario for Lifan and Zongshen for that mater. It is not that they cannot or do not offer a copy they just do not have any in a production bikes to the best of my knowledge. Unless Shineray is not making its own engines, I believe that they do, but I could be wrong.

A company called Dongben is offering a 300cc water cooled DOHC, maybe that is not an NX250 bored out now that we have discovered that there are copies of the KLX300 engine.

For air cooled I like the 223cc OHC there are also 200cc versions as well, the Honda copies.

The copy of the NX250 is all there really is that offers performance in the realm of china.

There is also the Suzuki 250 and 200 as well, but neither are setting any performance benchmarks.

So as for bang for the buck the Yingang seem to be the winner winner of a chicken dinner.

[MJH]

The Turks managed to get the right to the Mondial brand (Milan, Italy 1948-1979) name and are offering Chinese bikes under that brand.

They seemed to be offering the Loncin GN250 sport bike or at least there were images of it online with the Mondial brand on them.

However they are not on the Mondial website, only the Lifeng water cooled 250 twin sport bike is offered?
http://www.mondialmotorcycle.com/

As well as some of the ZONTE models.

[Deom2i]

yeah! Yingang has bad arse performance. I can say it also applies to Shineray as both use 250cc engine from NX250 copy.
yingyang engine are there available for scooters too, 50cc and 125cc?