Why did they ban Motorcycles

**euphonius** · 09-05-2012, 08:04 AM

Dear ChinaV,

Given that I've been in China 22 years and you only, what, a dozen, you have no right to be more cynical about the place than me!!

I'll defer to you about what the true motivations are behind this reported decision to move to a lottery system for plates. But it does occur to me that Shanghai too has major car manufacturers (VW and GM, in bed with SAIC), yet has actively restricted all vehicles through a lottery for years, rather than just letting cars run roughshod as has been the case pretty much everywhere else, including Guangzhou. The fact is it now costs 68,000 rmb, or north of US$10k, to plate a car (or a motorbike) here. I'd like to think that someone in government here has had the foresight to see the social benefit of limiting vehicle numbers. I feel that social benefit with every breath I take, and every time I get on my bicycle or motorcycle.

But I also still believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy.

Cheers!

**ChinaV** · 09-05-2012, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by euphonius

Dear ChinaV,

Given that I've been in China 22 years and you only, what, a dozen, you have no right to be more cynical about the place than me!!

I'll defer to you about what the true motivations are behind this reported decision to move to a lottery system for plates. But it does occur to me that Shanghai too has major car manufacturers (VW and GM, in bed with SAIC), yet has actively restricted all vehicles through a lottery for years, rather than just letting cars run roughshod as has been the case pretty much everywhere else, including Guangzhou. The fact is it now costs 68,000 rmb, or north of US$10k, to plate a car (or a motorbike) here. I'd like to think that someone in government here has had the foresight to see the social benefit of limiting vehicle numbers. I feel that social benefit with every breath I take, and every time I get on my bicycle or motorcycle.

But I also still believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy.

Euphonius, surely you must know I'm an optimist. Given any situation in China, I'm always optimistic that the outcome will be F%$&ed up.

I only have 2 words for every f$%^tard that holds a position in China city planning PARKING SPACES.... there, 25% of your problems solved. Timed traffic lights that flow traffic through a city... another 25% of your traffic problems solved. Stop making people run all over town for stupid chops, stamps, seals, signatures and fees...another 25% of your problem solved. I will leave the other 25% up to you guys.

Oh, was that more than 2 words.

Cheers!
ChinaV

**Lao Jia Hou** · 09-05-2012, 09:34 PM

Chinese logic ...

Mr. Zhang: We've got way too many cars in Beijing. We need a solution, now!
Mr. Zhou: We'll do a lottery.
Mr. Zhang: But won't that continue to put more cars on the road, just at a slower pace?
Mr. Zhou: No problem. Everyone loves lotteries. And we'll further restrict those nuisance motorcycles/scooters to show we're "really serious."

Normal logic ...

Congestion charges - 20 rmb if you want to bring your car inside the 5th ring road. An extra 30 rmb if you want to bring it inside the 4th ring road. And an extra 50 rmb inside the 3rd. Money talks.

Addendum ...

From the volume of "And You Thought It Couldn't Get Any Dumber?" ...

There is a policy paper circulating in Beijing to require e-bikes/e-scooters getting a blue plate. This is under serious consideration. A blue plate is one of those 10,000 rmb (secondary market) plates for motorcycles under 50cc (aka mopeds).

The "logic" is ... if the e-scooter/e-bike can achieve a speed of >20 kms/hr, then it should be regarded as a moped and need to be plated. Oh, and the rider will also require an "F" class of driving license.

Well, there are currently about 16,000 blue plates in the secondary market, but around 2 million e-bikes, e-scooters (a very conservative estimate).

Oh yeah, this "policy" will go over well.

Seriously ... yes, plate, license and insure e-scooter riders ... with a newly issued plate (e.g., green). Leave the blue plates for motorized mopeds, but open up the blue plate issuance in a manner that would not disrupt the market. I know, I know ... I'm dreaming.

**Barry** · 09-06-2012, 03:26 AM

I think the main traffic problem is the way people act/behave in traffic here! Furthermore the lack of enforcement of the ACTUAL traffic rules and not the "everyone does it so it must be okay way".

Did anyone ever see a pedestrian/bicycle/e-bike get a fine for walking/riding the red lights in China?

**Lao Jia Hou** · 04-29-2013, 01:50 AM

One of the things I like about China is ... you never know what is going to happen next, good or bad.

As I am sure everyone has heard, Beijing is struggling with horrid air pollution and insane traffic congestion. The government has indicated that it is constructing new policies to address these two pressing issues.

So ... the Deputy Director of the Beijing Traffic Management Bureau recently claimed (paraphrasing) ...

"Motorcycles are one of the key reasons for traffic congestion (they impede car movement) ... and also one of the key contributors for Beijing's air pollution."

Here is the Sina article (note last paragraph of article).

http://news.sina.com.cn/c/2013-04-25/180126947424.shtml

Roughly translated (using Google Chrome), this last paragraph states:

Green travel issues

Shaoming: "Jin Mo (motorcycle), slowing the speed of the motor vehicle development. Through the construction of rail transit and high-capacity public transport corridors, and improve non-motor vehicle lanes and other measures to provide the public with safe green travel conditions.

Huh?

With respect, I don't really think he has thought this through. It seems he argues that to reduce pollution/congestion, motorcycle riders should take the bus or subway.

OMFG, those 125cc scooters definitely hold up the SUVs & Audi A8s (the two preferred vehicles of "leaders") and those damn scooters pollute much more than the desirable big cars.

Just come out and say it, Mr. Deputy Director ... you hate motorcycles, you want to find some reasons to ban them, and the pollution/congestion "story" will appeal to the masses, regardless of the obvious reality.

And here is the Chinese motorcycling community's reaction (be warned, it is much more vile than we see on this sweet, innocent & harmonious MCM) ...

http://www.motorfans.com.cn/bbs/t_17594851_1.htm

**thedannywahl** · 04-30-2013, 02:39 AM

Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

OMFG, those 125cc scooters definitely hold up the SUVs & Audi A8s (the two preferred vehicles of "leaders")

Especially when all those scooters, e-bikes etc... are clogging up the bike lane or shoulder, which we all know is actually the "I'm in a black car" VIP access lane.

**Nuhaus** · 04-30-2013, 04:16 AM

Thanks for the link Lao Jia Hou. I know for a fact that Beijing has some exceptionally bright people studying traffic patterns in the city. I cannot begin to understand how they could state something like this.

Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

"Motorcycles are one of the key reasons for traffic congestion (they impede car movement) ... and also one of the key contributors for Beijing's air pollution."

The "Belgian Tansport and Mobility Leuven: Commuting By Motorcycle" study which was published last year is a good indication of why motorcycles are actually good for traffic.

http://www.tmleuven.be/project/motor...uting/home.htm

A pity we can't ask Mr. Deputy Director to read it. It really does seem like a few people just don't want to wait for two wheelers to clear the intersection.

**PeteZ** · 04-30-2013, 06:01 AM

Just the latest round of doublethink to come out of China's officials. I don't know the exact numbers but I'm willing to bet that 2-wheeled vehicles only make up a small fraction of Beijing's 5-million motor vehicles.

**bikerdoc** · 04-30-2013, 06:44 AM

So Mr Deputy Director therefore the rest of the usual users are made up of a combination of cows and sheep, with very very few thoroughbreds in the mix... nope. Oh, sorry what's that... topic is road use, traffic patterns versus flows and the effect of various road user categories with particular reference to motorcycles oh, ummm so sorry... thought we was discussing... oh, yeah TIC!

Can you folks follow that thought pattern? *smiles*

**PeteZ** · 04-30-2013, 09:35 AM

The actual sentence in the article referring to bike bans in Beijing is neither here nor there. Classic party doublespeak:

Li Shao Ming: At the same time as "banning bikes", reduce the proliferation of motor vehicles.

That was my best attempt at a translation. The question now is whether Mr Li was referring to the current Beijing motorcycle ban (since motorcycles aren't allowed within the 2nd ring or on ring roads, Beijing technically has a motorcycle ban) or an upcoming ban that will soon take effect. I'd love a straight answer once in a blue moon.