250cc options in China.

[euphonius]

So far I'm pretty happy with the Jialing fuel injection, as long as I don't get a bad batch of petrol and can keep the battery charged enough to drive the fuel circuit. Back in the fall I was all anxious about Jialing's release of a firmware upgrade for the Bosch electronic control module, but the bike is running OK so I've put it out of my mind for now. Maybe I'll ping Jialing this week to see what gives. Jialing apparently does not bootleg the firmware; rather, they pay Bosch for it -- assuming they decide it's in their customers' interest. I've probably said this before, but this was described to me as analogous to computer OS upgrades. Jialing could upgrade the JH600 to the EFI equivalent of Win7, but right now we are still running on XP or 3.1 or "Bob" (anyone remember Bob, back when Microsoft was trying to be "hip"? Yeah, right.) or some other earlier version.

On the other hand, every grease monkey squatting in every "repair shop" in China has some ability to fix a carburetor, which explains why plenty of people prefer that form of fuel application. Needless to say, the toughening of fuel standards here in China and everywhere will have huge implications for fuel systems, and probably give Bosch a couple more decades of profits.

cheers

[jape]

Just wondering and OT, does the JH600 have an in-line fuel filter? Might be the cause of some of the 'bad fuel' problems if it is substandard or not present. What did Milton do in the end with all his problems? Did it work out?

[euphonius]

I do not see a filter in the schematics, and I've never had the plastics fully off my bike to see the full fuel circuit! So I am assuming there is not an inline filter. If that's the case, then the injector itself is acting as a filter! Probably not a great idea.

I'll take this up with Jialing this week too.

cheers

[jape]

Yes, I just happened to read an article on EFI against carburettor choices today in one of my dirtbike mags! It said that an often overlooked problem where EFI is blamed is in fact badly filtered fuel blocking injectors and I remembered Milton and other's posts on that topic. Given that cars and racing bikes have had EFI for a long while, it seems strange that 'bike EFI is still seen as problematic and such causes could explain a lot, especially with dirt bikes and in places with poor fuel.

As I said, I would prefer EFI if available, easier starting, no choke, no jets to play with, less exposure to water but as with all such electronic systems it needs to be 'right' else it is doubly frustrating if you cannot work on it.

[moilami]

EFI is hot cool technology promising to give better performance, less maintenance, and lower fuel consumption. It appears to be superior, and marketing speeches make it appear to be even more superior. In the end fact one remains: the bike works just good with a carburator.

[jape]

EFI is hot cool technology promising to give better performance, less maintenance, and lower fuel consumption. It appears to be superior, and marketing speeches make it appear to be even more superior. In the end fact one remains: the bike works just good with a carburator.

No mate, that is just it, EFI gives better emissions control with less loss of power, better fuel consumption and usually a broader width of power band. Told you I have just been reading up on it! I can also say that since I fixed my car EFI system with araldite and duct tape, the fuel consumption is much worse and it won't run smoothly.

It will be easier to buy a software package to root and mod the bike EFI along with any exhaust mods etc. rather than play with jets by hit and miss methods or word of mouth. The time will come soon when you attach your Android phone to the bike and download an APP to rework the performance, then set it back to factory default with a flick of a switch when the cops pull you over and check your telemetry!

[ChinaV]

I do not see a filter in the schematics, and I've never had the plastics fully off my bike to see the full fuel circuit! So I am assuming there is not an inline filter. If that's the case, then the injector itself is acting as a filter! Probably not a great idea.

I'll take this up with Jialing this week too.

cheers

Did you look in or near the fuel pump, that's a popular place to put the filter?

EFI gives better performance, but carbs transmit better throttle control to the rider.

It's going to take a lot of time for the Chinese MC industry to fix their bikes to run properly in a FI world. Glad I got my bikes before Feb 28. Would hate to be a new buyer this year that can't afford a JH600 or YBR250.

Cheers!
ChinaV

[euphonius]

Did you look in or near the fuel pump, that's a popular place to put the filter?

Ah, yes, here it is -- something called 油气分离器材 or "oil separator", just below the throttle body and the air box. The oil separator itself has an exploded view, and inside there are both fine and coarse filter elements.

Would the fact that the filter body can be opened up mean that it's a serviceable part? That you'd pull it out and perhaps clean or replace the filter elements, rather than replacing the whole contraption?


Screen shot 2011-03-05 at 4.56.07 PM.jpg


Sorry for the newb questions!

cheers

[moilami]

No mate, that is just it, EFI gives better emissions control with less loss of power, better fuel consumption and usually a broader width of power band. Told you I have just been reading up on it! I can also say that since I fixed my car EFI system with araldite and duct tape, the fuel consumption is much worse and it won't run smoothly.

It will be easier to buy a software package to root and mod the bike EFI along with any exhaust mods etc. rather than play with jets by hit and miss methods or word of mouth. The time will come soon when you attach your Android phone to the bike and download an APP to rework the performance, then set it back to factory default with a flick of a switch when the cops pull you over and check your telemetry!

Well, but untill that happens I am happy with my carburator with a motto "there ain't nothing much what can break in fuel system"

[dewsnap]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I'm still a layman but just about grasping the differences between carbs and FI. So this chat really helps.

What i've gathered from your discussion is that any new technology, particulary FI systems on Chinese bikes, will probably be troublesome and unreliable for the first couple of years until it's been RnD'd properly?

I've seen carb's and they look relatively simple compared to the FI systems that have all the wires, but possbily mechanics in China have had less experience working on FI systems meaning troubleshooting and problem solving could be more difficult?

It's another point to consider for myself as a neewbie trying to find the right bike. The new Yingang at 17,000rmb is dangerously close to YBR250 at 23,000rmb, so i've got to ask myself is the 6000rmb difference going to be worth the peace of mind considering the Yingan is using new tech that is comparitively untested?