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  1. #41 Re: 250cc options in China. 
    grumpy old sod jape's Avatar
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    I only know what reading up lately has told me while I consider my own purchase options, but there are many millions of EFI bikes running with no problems and no-one who has one, apart from a few old fashioned souls, would do without them.

    The latest I read in my monthly dirt bike magazine was that another couple of years is needed to be sure of the technology. I can't see why that would be when just about all cars have been fine with it for more than two decades, I am just reporting it. It may be to do with the hard use MX and similar bikes get or it may just be a myth because a few had problems or related issues such as the injector blockage due to poor fuel filtering systems. After reading the wikipedia entry I cannot imagine why it is so late into many bikes, probably just the costs.

    Yingyan seem to have their act together so you never know, depends on where they sourced the EFI. If it was me, I would risk it in Aus because there are diagnosis tools, mapping tools and possible replacements with educated technicians. China? Seems not but I bet it catches up fast. As i keep saying, it is not stupidity or ignorance it is lack of access to tech gear and training. Once they get it, you see computer equipment appear as good as anywhere else, half price. Plenty of chinese hackers too. As I said before also, it is not so far away that you will be able to buy a diagnostic tool for EFI on Taobao, just not this month!

    But China V is the expert and practical man for all this stuff so as he agrees with what I learnt yesterday in the latest magazine then go with that. You will only have one bike for a while, you want one you can work on or fix with a mate or guidance on here.
    Kinlon R/T KBR JL200GY-2
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  2. #42 Re: 250cc options in China. 
    Senior C-Moto Guru euphonius's Avatar
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    It's clearly emissions controls, both in Europe and here in China (US doesn't do sissy emissions controls), that are driving the trend toward fuel injection, so these manufacturers are having to get used to it. By and large, Chinese manufacturers are not market-driven, trying to win customers with better product, but this is starting to change, particularly among carmakers, now that companies like BYD are cracking the US and European markets not merely with decent quality at a low price but with a potentially game-changing combination of innovation, novelty AND low price.

    I do believe that forums like MCM will gradually have a big impact on these Chinese motorcycle manufacturers, but I don't feel that this is happening yet. There's no evidence that any of them are monitoring what we, the passionate pioneers of Chinabikes, are thinking and saying. I'm not sure what will cause that to change, though each email that you, dewsnap, send to Yingang has the potential to prompt someone there to start tuning in.

    But it'll be years before these China companies are able to rival the major international brands. These are mostly state-owned behemoths, and they don't change overnight -- if ever. It might require an upstart private manufacturer to catalyse this transition.

    All that said, however, I'd not rule out that Yingang EFI 250 on principle alone. It could be a real breakthrough bike. Or it could be like the Qingqi that never arrives. A vaporbike.

    cheers
    jkp
    Shanghai
    2010 JH600 "Merkin Muffley" (in Shanghai)
    2000 KLR650 "Feezer Ablanalp" (in California)
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  3. #43 Re: 250cc options in China. 
    MCM Chinese fellow td_ref's Avatar
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    Mr Jape, for the injection system YG sourcing, I recall months ago their project manager mentioned they have adopted from Ford (no more infor. was given, I wish i had more).

    Before Euro3 emission related regulation was active on 1st of March, the FI technology had been used at some bikes for a year or two. Big name like YBR250, Honda 佳御 110cc scooter, Qianjiang EFI models reported low fuel consumption and reliable.

    No doubt to YG decent 250 engine, who is sure YG will have a flawless FI system by May? If they could make sure every bike that leave the factory whose FI system can be further upgrade with ease, IMO, I would not hesitate to invest in better technology. (hmm....reminds me early days buying an OS 10.2 laptop for college, Android phone for enjoy GPS technology--very impressive kudos to American, the benefits I gain from outweigh their flaws).
    Last edited by td_ref; 03-06-2011 at 07:46 AM. Reason: spell check
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  4. #44 Re: 250cc options in China. 
    grumpy old sod jape's Avatar
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    Thanks very much for that Mr td-ref, we need as much of this kind of report as we can get. How is your Suzuki going?

    Chonqing Technology of which Yingang is a part may have the ability to sort the EFI out if working with Ford, do you think? Maybe they have done it already, it takes a while to get production lines setup so they would be buying the controllers and programming them now.

    Qianjiang say they are the biggest group in China so may be ahead of that game.
    Going to be an interesting year coming up!

    As you say, if it is possible to upgrade then worth the risk for a good 250cc. Everyone, including me, has been complaining the 200cc is just too slow!
    Kinlon R/T KBR JL200GY-2
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  5. #45 Re: 250cc options in China. 
    Senior C-Moto Guru euphonius's Avatar
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    Yingang like all the others have known for a long time that these stricter emissions controls were coming, particularly in the case of Europe. Surely they are not total strangers to EFI. I doubt a carbureted bike could be easily retrofitted with electronic fuel injection, but for a manufacturer to make the switch should not be a huge challenge. Getting the firmware and software right is another matter, but the EFI provider should be very good at helping the manufacturer tweak performance. The question is whether the bike makers will care enough to do so. This is the problem we face now with Jialing, which has been talking about issuing a firmware update for a year now, but apparently has not yet worked out the details with Bosch.

    If all makers are having to switch to EFI to meet the stricter emissions and fuel-efficiency requirements, this should spur competition among the EFI providers -- and maybe get Jialing off their complacent military asses to spend the bucks necessary and make the promised upgrades.

    cheers
    jkp
    Shanghai
    2010 JH600 "Merkin Muffley" (in Shanghai)
    2000 KLR650 "Feezer Ablanalp" (in California)
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  6. #46 Re: 250cc options in China. 
    Moto Scholar moilami's Avatar
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    Get a carb model while you can. Someday you can't. At least brand new one.
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  7. #47 Re: 250cc options in China. 
    Senior C-Moto Guru barnone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moilami View Post
    Get a carb model while you can. Someday you can't. At least brand new one.
    Were we not saying that about autos twenty years ago? Never have touched the "fool" injection system on my Toyota Tacoma in 10 years of ownership since new. Seems I remember rebuilding carbs back in the day. Didn't "they" say something about that fancy electronic ignition back long ago? Points and condensers? "I can fix it by the side of the road."
    Vince
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  8. #48 Re: 250cc options in China. 
    Moto Scholar moilami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barnone View Post
    Were we not saying that about autos twenty years ago? Never have touched the "fool" injection system on my Toyota Tacoma in 10 years of ownership since new. Seems I remember rebuilding carbs back in the day. Didn't "they" say something about that fancy electronic ignition back long ago? Points and condensers? "I can fix it by the side of the road."
    Electronic ignition versus the old ignition is different beast alltogether when compared to carb vs EFI. The main difference being the old ignition system required constant maintenance. Carb does not require constant maintenance, and if it breaks, it is easier to troubleshoot and fix than EFI.

    But if you don't like carb and think EFI is so much superior that a bike without it sucks, then buy EFI bike. It is simple.

    My point is that both can work very well, but carb happens to be more reliable system in the end requiring less special tools. I can ride very happily with a bike with either fuel system.

    This is also end of line for me with this issue. I am not on for carb vs EFI war.
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  9. #49 Re: 250cc options in China. 
    C-Moto Senior dewsnap's Avatar
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    Just a bit of info...

    The 2011 model YBR250 is 24,800 rmb not including tax. (The dealers said the new model is a little greener. The only noticable difference to the layman is the ugly silver exhaust system has been replaced with a black muffler) So an extra 3000rmb min is needed to get the YBR road ready. 28,000 rmb before you're even thinking about plates. The YBR is now totally out of my reach. When i was quoted (14,800rmb) for the Regal Raptor the dealers told me the price included tax, insurance etc, so i stupidly assumed that the price for all bikes included tax, but it doesn't. The Raptor is looking more attractive now.

    Another 250 option that i've seen on the Yingang site... The YG3R. I have no idea about it's price or availabilty in China. Sexy bike but too sporty for me.

    YG3R bimg.jpg
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  10. #50 Re: 250cc options in China. 
    C-Moto Senior dewsnap's Avatar
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    It's also of no use to anybody but i wanted to share this website. http://www.jsjtmoto.com/

    It's a bike shop in Guandong selling second hand grey import bikes. There's some real beauties. None of them are legal however. I found this website in the MotorCycle Trend magazine which had me thinking for a minute that these bikes might be legit. My wife called and they are NOT. The guy said he would send a plate from another province. Highly suspect. Here are my picks of the bikes for sale.

    CB400
    cb400.jpg

    Honda 250
    cb250.jpg

    RS250
    RS250.jpg

    KLX250
    KLX250.jpg


    It just goes to show that you need to be really careful buying bikes in China. The guy was very willing to send a bike to Shanghai and he was suggesting that with the plates the bikes are legal. The bikes are dirt cheap and if i'd have found this site a couple of months ago before i found MCM i probably would have bought one of these.

    I don't mind smearing the image of his company as he tried to con my wife. I would suggest to anybody considering a used bike in China. Don't!
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