CFMoto 650NK sport bike

[bikerdoc]

I think this also says good things about the future of motorcycling in China. I don't think CFMoto would investing in this bike and the domestic market if they felt it were being choked off. Perhaps they know something?
Would be a great time to interview the heads of CFMoto to ask that question. With cities banning bikes left and right, and bikes effectively firewalled from most expressways, meaning these bigger bikes have little room to run, why launch this bike now?
cheers

CFMoto don't have any intent to focus on the domestic market, nor any illusion as to the opposition that they face on multiple sides. While they do have principle dealers in most Chinese provinces and there are domestic dealers that carry or can order their stock, CFMoto are focused elsewhere in so much as they see the globe as the potential market, and I must say that just from my personal impressions they seem to be doing fairly well at it. Inevitably there have been a few hiccups along the way (i.e. newly arrived stock being was held by the American Authorities last year which CFMoto is pursuing for civil damages in the American courts, as one example) but they are committed to the European, Eastern caucuses, and Americas, less so in the Asia Pacific region (given that the market is exponentially smaller). As for the CFMoto presence in the domestic market, it's a pity at least round these parts that they don't have a dedicated domestic dealership network - but then given that the domestic market isn't their focus it's to be expected. The domestic market is a consequence of the global marketing strategy.

Given time, and a maturing of the market and motorcycling in China (and so to the automotive sector in general in PRC), there is bound to be some changes that are likely to bode well for motorcycles and two wheelers, not least being the significant increases in the cost of oil and getting it to market, and the possibility of scarcity - this can surely only be good for biking in general.

[macieq]

Great update Macieq. Lots of eye candy on that second link.

A couple of Beijing dealers have started advertising mid-June delivery.

Not a bad price, it seems. I don't really follow this style of bike, but my guess is it will be a big hit in Beijing. At least two thirds the illegal big bikes are sport bikes, selling for around this price. Hence, a legal bike will be more attractive to many.

Lao Jia Hou,

The question is, is it really a legal bike. It seems like they have started a sales campaign on the domestic market. But I could not find a 100% proof so far. Did you talk to the dealers in question in Beijing? I have sent an email to CF Moto's sales asking this question (plateable) and to pay them a visit for a test ride, by the way. But no answer so far...

[macieq]

Really? 72hp is exactly what the ER6 makes, i wonder if they just copied and pasted.

Either way it seems like a nice bike and the price is pretty fair. I think it actually looks nicer than the kawa! Who's gonna be the guinea pig then?

Felix,

Since I still have not ordered the JH600 yet, I started to hesitate about the CF now. I spoke to Ulli, who is a German engineer having a R&D shop for motorbike engines at the Tian Ma circuit in Shanghai (he was quoted in this forum already by somebody in another thread). Anyway, he supposed to have a kind of cooperation with CF or giving them some support, especially in respect to the fuel injection system. He told me the test ride with this bike was really fun. I asked him about the power. He said if 72HP or not, it does not matter on Chinese roads, but it was for sure more than 60HP. As he has a long term experience in the racing sport I would believe that he can judge it by feeling. Furthermore he said he thought the bike is realiable and easy to ride, also having good suspension and brakes. Maybe softer than the Japs racer bikes, but this is just fine for Chinese roads. He ment every Harley or even my old "rubber cow" BMW are better for that. OK, saying "easy to ride" is maybe not 100% the same for him and for me. I am familiar with a riding position of the JH600 rather than of a kind of a "street fighter". So, this is something for a test ride. An advantage for me in Shanghai could be the location of CF Moto in Hangzhou, which is so to say, in front of the house door. So, just in case if something went wrong with the bike...

But there are still some doubts:

- the JH600 is a kind of a proven bike in China as tested by some forum members since 2 years. The CF in contrary seems still in the prototype stage.

- what about the license plates? They did not answer my inquiry related yet.

- for my personal taste I rather prefer a dual sport than a sport bike from the point of view of riding comfort. For that reason the importance of a test ride.

[macieq]

Couldn't agree more, nice bike (alternative) & some stunningly nice eye candy.

Eye candy :) That's where they're still better than in technology... Yes, nice pictures. Hopefully the bike will be as nice alternative as the pics are.
As I mentioned below I am not so sure if they have obtained the certificates required already. I let a Chinese colleague of mine call Xingyue (XY400...) and Qingqi (QM250GY) and they all admitted not having them yet due to the new emission requirements (at least for engines above 150 cc). They said they were waiting for that since 6 months and the only brand in China which has fulfilled the standards already before due date was Jialing! They said it on their own will, without asking about the competition. But the JH600 is extremly "underpowered" with 40HP. Can the CF claiming 72HP fulfill the standard?

[euphonius]

....But the JH600 is extremly "underpowered" with 40HP. ...

Dear Macieq,

Needless to say I'm biased, but I find it pretty hard to understand why anyone would want more power than what the JH600 delivers. Your preference for a dual sport style of bike over a sport bike is not just practical; it's prudent and wise. There's just way too f**king much happening on China's roads, and much of it is unprincipled and dangerous. Being top-dead-center upright with your head and eyes positioned to scan all but about 90 degrees of the horizon (directly behind your head) is a strategy for survival. Leaning forward on a sport bike, even just 15 or 20 degrees, substantially decreases your ability to scan the horizon and also reduces your ability to see over passenger cars. Adding horsepower and the ability to accelerate faster and ride at higher overall speeds will certainly give an adrenaline boost, but I'd argue that it substantially decreases your chances of avoiding calamity.

Sometimes I wish I'd opted for a lighter and more maneuverable bike like the Galaxy 250, which respond better to emergency evasion moves despite having maybe half the horsepower even of the Jialing.

It's not a jungle out there. It's a maelstrom. China is a chaotic developing country, where speed kills. A strategy for survival is one that gives you the best possible chance of seeing what's about to cream you, traveling at a safe enough speed that leaves you with a margin for error and quick adjustment, and pulling it all together with an attitude of respect and humility toward the dangers and risks that we take when we throttle into that maelstrom.

A final word of (unsolicited) advice from an admitted novice with only two years' experience as a rider: I would take the views of any trackside wrench jockey with a huge grain of salt. They are thinking about bikes in absolute terms -- the terms of winning on a track -- and not in the prudent, life-preserving relative terms that I've described above. And talk is cheap when it's not your own ass in the sling.

good luck!

[macieq]

I don't think that CFMoto have any intent to focus on the domestic market, nor any illusion as to the opposition that they face on multiple sides. While they do have principle dealers in most Chinese provinces and domestic dealers that carry their stock, CFMoto are focused elsewhere in so much as they see the globe as the potential market, and I must say that just from my personal impressions they seem to be doing fairly well at it. Inevitably there have been a few hiccups along the way (i.e. newly arrived stock being was held by the American Authorities last year which CFMoto is pursuing for civil damages in the American courts, as one example) but they are committed to the European, Eastern caucuses, and Americas, less so in the Asia Pacific region (given that the market is exponentially smaller). The domestic market is a consequence of the global marketing strategy.

Given time, and a maturing of the market and motorcycling in China (and so to the automotive sector in general in PRC), there is bound to be some changes that are likely to bode well for motorcycles and two wheelers, not least being the significant increases in the cost of oil and getting it to market, and the possibility of scarcity - this can surely only be good for biking in general.

As to the intentions of CF's management, the Ulli I quoted in a post above told me, he convinced the general manager of CF not to give up the Chinese market with this middle size bike some months ago. He said the future market here for real motorcycles is huge in his opinion. Maybe he impressed them with his speech. I do not know in how far this information is serious. Just quote what he told me.

[macieq]

Dear Macieq,

Needless to say I'm biased, but I find it pretty hard to understand why anyone would want more power than what the JH600 delivers. Your preference for a dual sport style of bike over a sport bike is not just practical; it's prudent and wise. There's just way too f**king much happening on China's roads, and much of it is unprincipled and dangerous. Being top-dead-center upright with your head and eyes positioned to scan all but about 90 degrees of the horizon (directly behind your head) is a strategy for survival. Leaning forward on a sport bike, even just 15 or 20 degrees, substantially decreases your ability to scan the horizon and also reduces your ability to see over passenger cars. Adding horsepower and the ability to accelerate faster and ride at higher overall speeds will certainly give an adrenaline boost, but I'd argue that it substantially decreases your chances of avoiding calamity.

Sometimes I wish I'd opted for a lighter and more maneuverable bike like the Galaxy 250, which respond better to emergency evasion moves despite having maybe half the horsepower even of the Jialing.

It's not a jungle out there. It's a maelstrom. China is a chaotic developing country, where speed kills. A strategy for survival is one that gives you the best possible chance of seeing what's about to cream you, traveling at a safe enough speed that leaves you with a margin for error and quick adjustment, and pulling it all together with an attitude of respect and humility toward the dangers and risks that we take when we throttle into that maelstrom.

A final word of (unsolicited) advice from an admitted novice with only two years' experience as a rider: I would take the views of any trackside wrench jockey with a huge grain of salt. They are thinking about bikes in absolute terms -- the terms of winning on a track -- and not in the prudent, life-preserving relative terms that I've described above. And talk is cheap when it's not your own ass in the sling.

good luck!

Dear Euphonius,

at least 90% or more of what you said are also my thoughts and opinions. And I am not as crazy as it seems at first glance. I just wanted to share my findings on the current situation about the CF 650NK. As I said I m in doubt about her for some reasons. As for the HP of the JH600 I do not mean it is too little for the current riding environment in China (therefore i was also thinking about the XY400 and QM250GY as an option). I rather mean it is too little for a 600 cc engine, water cooled, DOHC, developed in 2009. This ratio of HP to displacement got my old BMW lady and even the models before, i.e. almost 40 years ago without DOHC, water cooling and fuel injection. But I still think it is good or rather the best choice in China nowadays.

BTW: I just went for a walk after dinner and saw a black JH600 in front of the Starbucks close to the Science & Technology Museum in Shanghai, Pudong. waiting 5 mins, the rider did not come back, I left finally. Who of you guys was that?

[euphonius]

Yes, I can sense you are not a loose cannon kind of rider, which is a good thing. Yes, the power to displacement ratio is not too impressive with the Austrian-designed AVL power plant on the Jialing, and the bike's weight makes here a bit of a boat. But she's a blast to ride, and for my money is just right for slipping in and out of Shanghai and for longer tours.

....I just went for a walk after dinner and saw a black JH600 in front of the Starbucks close to the Science & Technology Museum in Shanghai, Pudong. waiting 5 mins, the rider did not come back, I left finally. Who of you guys was that?

Wasn't mine, which I just checked moments ago in my compound. Perhaps Milton's, as he lives in Pudong. So far as I know there are only five or six of us in Shanghai.

cheers!

[Lao Jia Hou]

1) Is it legal/registrable/C-3?

In Beijing, yes. In Shanghai, no idea. Each city seems to be its own little empire. Several examples of inconsistent "legality" between cities (JH600B, sidecar, case in point). My suggestion would be to put a deposit on one, and pay the balance after the plate is on. No plate? Get your deposit back.

2) JH600?

[rant]I really have no idea why people need to diss this bike, aside from the fact that it is Chinese and not one of the big name brands (aka "status"). I own a JH600, along with several other types of bikes, and have NEVER found it to be lacking in power. It is my "go to" bike 95% of the time for riding outside of Beijing. I also own a BMW 650GS (in Canada), and although there is a small "on paper" edge in HP by the BMW, practically, there is no difference. None, zilch, zero! The big difference is that I can buy five JH600s for the price of one 650GS in China. And anyone who tries to tell you that BMWs are more reliable ... hahahaha ... have some more Kool Aid.[/rant]

3) Safety?

I agree 1,000% with Euphonius about riding position. The upright poston of a dual sport is infinitely safer in this crazy Chinese traffic. But it always comes down to personal preference (whatever floats your boat). If you like sport bikes, and countless people love them (just not me), the CF Moto product looks good (and I think CF Moto makes a decent product). If you like enduro-style, the Galaxy 250 is very nice. I just sold one (which I regret), but I might try the new Qingqi 250 (see ChinaV's review).

4) Traffic / cruising / errands

Inside Beijng city, among the traffic, I always use a scooter ... MUCH safer, easier, quicker, convenient ... I love the little Suzuki 125. Except if I am cruising from Starbucks to Starbucks, being "super cool" - a job for my super-obnoxiously loud Victory (it actually sets off car alarms as I ride past!).

If I want to pack 500 kgs of junk, do a lot of shopping, etc., I use a sidecar (JH600B).

Bottom line for me is ... if I was into sport bikes (which I'm not), I would probably buy the new CF 650. But first I'd see if there was something available in the 250 to 400 cc range.

Cheers
Richard

PS: (one more rant about the JH600) A friend (who will remain "unnamed" ... but plays bass in our band ... and owns several Ducatis, a Yamaha R1, etc - and is probably a definitive racing guy with oodles of track experience) borrowed my JH600 for a weekend. The following week, he was negotiating with the dealer to buy one.

[bikerdoc]

Interesting discussion going on here, so I'm going to chime in on it if you'll all allow me to do so.

For the neigh-sayers let me set the record straight, the new CF650NK CAN BE LEGALLY PLATED/LICENSED in those cities where motorcycles ARE NOT BANNED. I know this to be factual after having confirmed this by phone directly with my contact at CFMoto Hangzhou 2011-05-18 while I was ordering some consumable parts for my Jetmax.

As I stated earlier in this thread, CFMoto are not into the domestic market, so the fact they have bothered to get this model certified and available for China at all should be applauded. By doing so they hopefully encourage the other motorcycle manufacturers to lift there game! Also this gives those of us in China a little more option too, which given the state of motorcycling affairs in China is only a positive. Actually if a few more Chinese motorcycle manufacturers were to invest as much R&D, time and effort into the local scene as CFMoto has done (despite CFMoto not focused on the domestic market) then we might get to have some advantage in gaining some political muscle to correct some of the biased discriminatory anti-motorcycling policies that abound in China (city motorcycle bans & equitable expressway use).

As stated, the CF650NK isn't the most ideal motorcycle for China, though to be fair one could argue that there is no ideal motorcycle for China! given the state of the affairs here. At least by CFMoto adding to what is legally available we might just get to have some realistically priced choices over and above the low end models that abound here already and the few locally manufactured mid sized machines. One of the things that lets CFMoto down (and possibly other manufacturers) is they don't have a great dedicated dealer network, that is service orientated. Just yesterday, I tried to order my Jetmax parts via the Zhejiang dealer using the official Jetmax parts list schematic complete with drawings of every part and the corresponding part numbers. The Zhejiang dealer (principle dealer for the entire province) replied with a request that I take a photo of which parts I wanted. What a f^&%*# joke! So I rang CFMoto domestic sales manager to complain!

I've had a close up view of the CF650NK and am suitably impressed, and I'm hoping to arrange a test ride at CFMoto Hangzhou soon, to determine if it's something I want to add to my collection.
While it may be overpowered, to road-sport orientated etc. it will join a long list of other motorcycles that also aren't best suited to the local China conditions, but are bought and ridden here in abundance. Guess the other point is, at least here in Zhejiang there are lots and lots of nice motorcycling roads to be had/ridden.