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  1. #1 Rumours - confirmed & unconfirmed 
    Danger, Will Robinson! Lao Jia Hou's Avatar
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    Feb 24, 2011

    Things are changing ... at least in Beijing ... and there is an amazing amount of misinformation out there ... so I`ve chatted with several people `in the know`about fact versus fiction.

    Confirmed: "A" plates are now running 12 to 15K, up from 8K a few months ago, thanks to the vehicle plate lottery system forcing people to consider motorcycles as "necessary" transportation

    Unconfirmed: Motorcycles might be thrown into the lottery system in a couple of months, according to two large dealers (but unknown by a third). This would be really stupid, as bikes are already restricted (no new plates without an existing plated bike being salvaged), but given how stupid the plate lottery system is, it may just happen. If so, what a disaster! The worst part is you cannot sell a used vehicle with the plate - the plate stays with the vendor, and the buyer must have won the lottery to plate the used vehicle. Used car dealers say biz is down 94% since Jan 1, 2011

    Confirmed: Full 11-year "A" plate available on brand new CJ750s (price is 38K, including the plate). Only one dealer can do it, though.

    Confirmed (for now): The temporary driving licenses for `L`visa holders will NEVER be available for motorcycles - only rental passenger cars & bike riders on properly organized bike tours in remote provinces.

    Semi-confirmed: Beijing traffic police will be doubling their efforts to get illegally plated bikes off the road, in response to the numerous vocal complaints from car drivers who cannot get plates (due to the lottery system) and are getting fined, etc, for driving with out-of-province plates or no plates ... and they see unplated bikes, or bikes with other-province plates, zooming by. This was in a news article on BTV (almost every night there is a news article about the vehicle plate lottery), and the police were quoted as saying they would be more stringently enforcing motorcycle plate laws. A favorite place for the police to catch bikes is just outside my door, so I`ll see if the once-a-week-roadblocks are increased in the coming weeks.

    Confirmed: The CCC and C-3 emissions rules are now having a big impact - several dealers are now saying `we`ll see in the coming weeks which bikes we can plate`. The so-called `grace period`appears to be over. Qingqi are having trouble, apparently ... but the new Regal Raptor 350 was approved and it is flying out the door (25K plus 15K for the plate, plus all the extra taxes, etc, puts it up to mid 40s)

    Sigh
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  2. #2 Re: Rumours - confirmed & unconfirmed 
    Senior C-Moto Guru euphonius's Avatar
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    Wow, seems like sheer chaos. A lottery! What a perfect setup for corruption! Will it be possible to transfer (sell) plates that are distributed via lottery? If so, you'll almost instantly have a market for transfers. If not, there will be huge pressure for back-door deals with the vehicle registrars.

    Why on earth don't they just impose an auction system like Shanghai (and Singapore and Hong Kong and perhaps others)? Whatever the market will bear. Our streets here are relatively uncongested because only a limited number of plates are issued. It makes for higher prices, but it seems more fair. If you really want a vehicle, you pay. I just hope that Shanghai has the nerve to stay the course. Beijing seems so broken as to be beyond repair.

    cheers
    jkp
    Shanghai
    2010 JH600 "Merkin Muffley" (in Shanghai)
    2000 KLR650 "Feezer Ablanalp" (in California)
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  3. #3 Re: Rumours - confirmed & unconfirmed 
    Danger, Will Robinson! Lao Jia Hou's Avatar
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    I agree - an auction system works better for rationing a fixed allocation of plates - but Beijing believed that `poor people`should not suffer by having to pay the 45K for a plate that SH people do (and also, of course, because Beijing doesn`t want to be seen as following SH`s lead). So, if you win the lottery, you only pay the 400 rmb (or something similar) for the plate registration. Most of the `poor people`are out-of-luck with getting a plate for their brand new Audi A6.

    In typical Chinese fashion, however, there are creative ways being developed to get around the new rules.

    But you`ll probably be seeing more of Beijing`s used cars being sold in other provinces, as a Beijing used car is now almost worthless - the buyer cannot get a plate for it!

    So, if bikes are thrown into this insane system, I will probably end up `leasing` my A plated bikes to some other foreigner, instead of selling them, when I want to replace them. But, then again, I can`t buy a new bike unless I`ve won the lottery.

    The genius who thought up this system has been transferred to Xinjiang - seriously!
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  4. #4 Re: Rumours - confirmed & unconfirmed 
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    How does this affect the value of jing-b plates? Moreover, will there be any way to transfer the registration of the bike in the future if it has been registered under a company's name? Why does China think of the most illogical and obtuse ways to deal with simple congestion problems? TiC i guess....
    Beijing: 2008 125cc Qingqi
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  5. #5 Re: Rumours - confirmed & unconfirmed 
    Danger, Will Robinson! Lao Jia Hou's Avatar
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    Jing B plates are interesting - they don't really have an after-market value.

    However, bikes with legal B plates are usually quite a bit more expensive than the illegal bikes, because the B-plated bike has gone through the proper channels (importation duties, if necessary, taxes, fees, licensing, inspection, insurance, etc). Therefore, a B-plated bike is more valuable than a non-plated bike.

    A large number of B-plated bikes are registered in company names because the real owner does not have a residence in the appropriate area (i.e., outside the 4th ring road). But the bike is legal, and insured, and inspected (assuming one keeps everything up-to-date). It is very common to have a B-plated bike registered in a company name - bike shops / agents take care of this. Last time I saw it done on a new bike, it was an additional few hundred rmb, I think.

    Selling a B-plated bike is actually just giving up possession - the "seller" turns over the keys, and the new "owner" just rides around on the bike. But the bike remains in the company name, so there is not a vehicle registration transfer. Possession essentially becomes 9/10ths of the law.

    A-plated bikes are more complicated, and with the inherent market value, the registration / ownership is important.

    As for your last question ... absolutely, TIC.
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  6. #6 Re: Rumours - confirmed & unconfirmed 
    Senior C-Moto Guru euphonius's Avatar
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    This shite is making my head spin, and hurt.
    jkp
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    2010 JH600 "Merkin Muffley" (in Shanghai)
    2000 KLR650 "Feezer Ablanalp" (in California)
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  7. #7 Re: Rumours - confirmed & unconfirmed 
    Danger, Will Robinson! Lao Jia Hou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by euphonius View Post
    This shite is making my head spin, and hurt.
    It all makes perfect sense to the bureaucracy - TIC.

    (We need a new emoticon that expresses the TIC sentiment)
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  8. #8 Re: Rumours - confirmed & unconfirmed 
    grumpy old sod jape's Avatar
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    It makes pefect sense to me as well. They are paying more than just 'lip service' to the communist ideal still, of the poor not being oppressed or disenfranchised by the rich. I admire that. No-one should be cynical about that.

    Of course, it is not working but most so-called democracies gave up even the pretence many years ago, relying instead on self-delusion as a force amongst the masses. It will happen in China once the standard of living rises ( if it is not already), the very poor and homeless will be marginalised completely, and probably treated as health risks etc. and quietly disposed of. Not necessarily killed like the Nazis did, just ignored, jailed etc as the insane are on the streets of Australia, or brutalised and victimised as the homeless are. Forgotten. In the end they become a smaller statistic and can be dealt with as such. The police forces of all nations are ready and able to deal with the few that stand out, cause a nuisance, always have and always will.

    It will be interesting to see how the Chinese overcome the Mumbai ghetto type problems of even more country dwellers moving into cities, the ghetto suburbs of Washington USA, and the unrest of the muddle eyast.

    The world is changing, as always, there seems to be quite a swell of social movement at present and China is relatively stable but you never know what small factor will tip the scales. Might be secondhand car prices in Beijing, might be people not able to transport themselves and goods on MBs. That is what they are for most, necessary transport. Not toys for a few westerners.

    And away from coffee table analysis, is the grandfather's axe solution viable? What does the license apply to once you have it, engine side plate and frame, one or both? Easy to get round for a good while, especially if it applies to just a number on a frame. I had bikes in the UK that were totally reincarnated many times, just an engine side-plate and frame that had many new lives in different set ups.
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  9. #9 Re: Rumours - confirmed & unconfirmed 
    C-Moto Guru Fred's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info.

    I don't know if you guys heard, but my boss told me they may consider changing Shanghai plates system too, to do the same as Beijing.
    Of course its only rumours, absolutely nothing more than this, but it got me wondering for a moment, because of course, spending RMB 45,000 on plates is no small deal. As you guys did before, I consider this as an investment, provided they don't change the system in 6 months...
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  10. #10 Re: Rumours - confirmed & unconfirmed 
    Danger, Will Robinson! Lao Jia Hou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jape View Post
    And away from coffee table analysis, is the grandfather's axe solution viable? What does the license apply to once you have it, engine side plate and frame, one or both? Easy to get round for a good while, especially if it applies to just a number on a frame. I had bikes in the UK that were totally reincarnated many times, just an engine side-plate and frame that had many new lives in different set ups.
    In China, the registration includes a color photo of the bike. Then, two years after initial new bike purchase, and annually thereafter, the bike must be inspected and tested. ANY modifications, including change of color, application of stickers, addition of racks, etc, will result in the bike NOT passing its inspection and not being able to be registered. Prior to the annual testing, therefore, the bike must be returned to its original condition.

    And it is not just bikes:

    I had an aftermarket roof rack on my Jeep 4WD ... fail ... roo-bar on the front ... fail ... Jeep stickers in the window ... fail, and so on. So, there is a large industry of returning your car/bike to original ... pass the test ... and then put the farkle back on. These helpful shops can be found next door to the testing stations.
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