general thoughts about future of chinabikes

[MJH]

I think the market has two major levels, transportation and enthusiasts. The smaller lighter more fuel efficient dominate the transportation section. What people buy and were as in the actual real buying behavior over time year after year is important to consider. Price and availability and perception of quality are always a factors.

The manufacturing is ruled by economy of scale, so one factory often supplies the entire global demand of one product or model line. The factory that supplies the most popular models flourishes and if managed well endures over time.

Having the most popular models and also the most advanced manufacturing processes supports that efficiency. The more sold the more manufactured. Ideally it’s a JIT process, Just in Time means that as one is manufactured one is being sold and little variance exists. Then nothing sits around, nothing gets discounted no workers get furloughed.

Supply meets demand at a point of optimization, its most efficient when it is the best model for the least possible costs, it also then can command the market.

However the most powerful force on the market is that of consumer confidence and if rooted in what is real and not contrived the best for less will establish it place in the market. Slow and steady and directed is a matter of knowing what consumers want and in that what it is they typically buy in propensity and were.

I say that it’s a matter of meeting transportation needs and also offering models that can also appeal to a level of enthusiasts, that will not happen if quality is low and overall business systems are unprofessional.

Jialing is researching and developing an engine that meets the emission standards and offers good fuel economy and respectable acceleration…it’s a focus on the aspect of transportation.
http://en.jialing.com.cn/column/ I say that is a 125cc and the main engine in the industry. Larger engines and adventures up into an enthusiast market and those may eventually be manufactured in china but I would not expect the prices to ever be considered low, they will likely be high as the rest of the global market prices. Why would or what incentive is there to produce and sell for less in china a model that can be sold into other markets for higher profits?

If your expecting a discount performance model coming from china…do not hold your breath. They will eventually and may be already manufacturing higher priced models for other manufactures being sold globally, your just not going to get access to those in china for lower prices.

However overall they can keep costs down in the overall market…but that does not seem to be lasting and eventually prices in china will inflate they for the most part are already.

[moilami]

However overall they can keep costs down in the overall market…but that does not seem to be lasting and eventually prices in china will inflate they for the most part are already.

Yeah, and when Chinese prices meet Japanese and European prices trademark value is what begins to count in buying decisions. Chinese have very long way to go before they have value in their bike trademarks even close to Japanese/EU trademarks value.

Edit: Trademark value by the way have some interesting things. One could say "I plan to buy a HD" but you don't hear people saying "I plan to buy a Suzuki". HD thus appears to be The Bike.

Edit: Actually those who say "I plan to buy a HD" are not buying a bike but status and a dream of lifestyle. However, that just tells more how far behind Chinese are in trademark value.

[MJH]

Jialing has contracts they I believe have their factories manufacture all of Honda equipment lines, like snow blowers and leaf blower and generators.

The problem at hand and it’s a big one is that other factories may be making products based on the designs of those and acting as other OEM’s for other brand names.

Going into china with a design in hand….then manufacturing it there for less and commanding a significant market share often leads to that shrinking down and while other brands replace that share…only problem is that the others are using designs that are yours.

Many of these scenarios never get addressed, that’s because as they initially have such huge profits and market share they are not willing to call the foul and often satisfied with a smaller share in the end and have already made huge profit initially.

However it is theft it is what is called white collar but not really any different then stealing the actual product and then selling it. The victims are the corporations and their share holders, which cannot really see it and often are just people that are not really concerned about it, they often change jobs and often have no conscious beyond their own individual gains. I would not be surprised to read eventually they find out some on both sides take bribes not to say anything.

It is all a good lessen in karma, why invest time and energy to develop new and better if somebody will simply take it and replicate it and use it in the market against you. They can and do undercut you since they have no costs to recover for the initial development.

So you also have new technology and old technology, in that what is intellectual rights and what was but the rights have since transpired.

So in that what is created new to meet new standards can and should have protected rights in the market and in that define a new market place. If the new standard is smooth and crisp acceleration with better fuel economy and less emissions, then those that meet that standard first can get an economy of scale to justify production and if the volume is high the price can be kept low.

If production is set to meet the highest standards of the collective global standard, then all production meets and exceeds a collective global standard. In that it limits imports and if efficient wins in a global export market.

I would say having the highest standards for fuel efficiency and also lowest emissions is appropriate for china since it posses the biggest or largest position as a consumer of fuel and also related emission gasses.

Then through attrition old models leave the market and new models and suppliers replace them. I say the result would be lots of more efficient small displacement models and perhaps higher end foreign models domestically manufactured.

They will have to get handle on intellectual property rights as it’s double edged sword.

[moilami]

Chinese have to let the value of their trademarks to grow. It depends on them on what way the trademarks will grow. At the moment Chinese bikes are not bad. I think during '60s much worse bikes were made. So if they keep pushing into this quality & affordability direction then eventually their trademarks will be acknowledged as such. That might be the first step. Later different brands could push their trademarks even further and fill the envelope, so to say, and make China an established MC manufacturer.

[moilami]

Marketing in Chinabikes could do also some rethinking. At the moment Chinese appear to be clueless of what is general opinion of oriental products and especially of Chinese made. For me as long as I remember, that is at least from '80, Made in China was equal to very bad crap. Things has changed a little novadays though in a way that Made in China equals cheap and not necessary very bad, and if the product have Western or Japanese brand it can equal good.

Now what are the brand names Chinabikes use? Lifan, Skyteam, Galaxy, Qinqi (? lol I don't even know how it is written), that is they are either some very strange kinda lame names (Galaxy, Skyteam) or they are names which give associations of Made in China = bad. It is obvious the brand name for western markets should not be lame or equal to bad.

Now, where is the creativity? Where is the insight? Made in China equals bad but that is not what China in general is considered to be. China is oriental mystic, adventure, and peace of mind. Chinese letters are so cool people make tattoos of them. Why not focus on branding on strenghts instead of weaknesses. So instead of making a brand Hoyzungu make a brand [insert some exotic Chinese character or characters here], which have a cool meaning in Western world, possible something on the axle oriental, adventure, strenght, peace of mind.

Invest on quality and marketing, and profit. Take a short cut to the respected brands and don't lag with the rest of the Chinabike manufacturers.

[MJH]

They could use Chinese symbols like 东方 but keep in mind if you convert it to Latin symbols that conversions is based on phonetics and pronounced dōngfāng but the meaning is that of literally the word oriental.

Xīngxì is a Latinized phonetic translation for 星系, which translates to galaxy.
市建设 is Jianshe which translates to municipal construction and is pronounced Shì jiànshè.

So if the symbols are utilized then the translation would inevitably ensue and it would still not always make any sense in western culture.

You would have light cavalry for Qingqi, municipal construction for Jianshe…but Jialing does make sense as it is consistent 嘉陵 is Jialing and is pronounced Jiālíng and it has no other meaning, its like Honda it's a word that represents a brand name and has no other meaning.

It’s best to IMO make up Chinese words then it is to make up English names, it worked for Honda….it took some time for people to get used to the name but they did eventually and you know there are morons in the west that may not even know that Honda is Japanese, seriously some people will tell you straight up…they have no idea what nation holds the corporation.

[moilami]

Lol now you must be hyperboling me. Surely adult normal people must know Honda is Japanese.

But the idea with Chinese symbol was that it would be something related to images of China and it would preferably have multiple positive meanings or interpretations either in Chinese or in English or in both languages. It could also mean in English something like "shogun" or "samurai". I know those are Japanese terms but I don't know Chinese culture to say actual Chinese examples. Something else anyway that "ZingZong".

The Chinese character would be both company logo and name of the company.

But if it is really impossible to do that kind of "original chinese brand" then no can do. There is always the traditional "lets wait untill generations of people change" and new whatever brands establish themselves.

(I know of those Japanese brands having difficulties too and Japanese even having copycat reputation. However the point in Chinese character was creativity and insight and not copycatting. It all started when I criticised copycatting and tunnel thinking and called for creativity, and thus I had to put out some creativity myself because it is usually better to come up with some examples instead of just criticising. + Japanese spent time in their economical world domination. China can do that too, but it can possibly take even more time, and that was the problem, and why do it copycatting when you can do something more creative? If western world can make brands out of their names and in Latin alphabet, why Chinese could not do the same with their alphabet when Chinese have it cool to the point people want to use it in tattoos. Chinese alphabet is cool and gives good vibrations instead of bad vibrations of bad quality like Zongzen etc does.)

[MJH]

Words do have actual real meanings, the use of Latin is often nothing more then a bridge based on phonetics translations. I used examples of actual Chinese characters and then converted them and any use of them inevitably gets translated, other wise outside of china they would be the brand with an unpronounceable symbol.

But I get it I’d personally be fine with a Chinese characters on my bike…it just would not work well on the forms at the BMV, the clerks are already challenged. The insurance companies would also struggle with a quote on a 星系.

Hey keep in mind I am a big fan of Heiwa and that translates to (Peace) 平和,

Which do you think would be a better brand name in Finland for a line of motorcycles?

Rauha
Peace
Heiwa
平和

I’d be fine with only 平和 on the bike and they can use any of the above on the paper work. But for advertising they have to choose one and in that the symbol could be lost?

So my point is if it translates across linguistic then it eliminate bad juju IMO.

Be careful asking were you can buy a (if in china) Dongfang…..or asking; were can I can get a part for one or service one, or worse... say you own one, it could freak them out, if not piss people off. It could also be problematic asking about Dongfang motorcycles since it is asking for oriental motorcycles and pretty much covers all of them.

[euphonius]

The brand Sony was manufactured so that it would be easy to say in any language. Smart folks there. Honda is not a great example, since it's written 本田 in both Japanese and Chinese and pronounced bunn tyan in Mandarin -- a far cry from "honda"! And the two characters in 本田 do have meanings (root and field), though no one thinks of those two ideas when hearing or reading the word 本田.

I'm curious how you folks far away from China pronounce Qingqi! Dongfang is probably mispronounced in America (dahng fayng rather than doeng fahng). Zongshen, anyone? Or Xingyue? (By the way, why isn't the Xingyue XY400GY-2 available in China?

Jialing is a lovely brand. It's easy to pronounce by most anyone (though some languages have trouble with L/R). It sounds authentic and recognizable to Chinese ears when spoken by non-Chinese speakers. And it's named after one of the two rivers that flow together in Chongqing, the other being the Yangtze, which is known to Chinese as the Changjiang.

ChinaV is right -- we need to get out riding.......

[jape]

straight of the top of my head, ching kwee - tsong shen - jzing way - sjee aling