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  1. #1 Had an accident 
    Senior C-Moto Guru
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    Ride report, yeah

    We were riding home yesterday at 6:20 pm, going west, a ride I've done many times before. I pass a traffic light, and 500 meters away, I see a girl smack in the middle of my path. Had no time to do anything, she was only ~4m away when I saw her. She came over the metal dividing fence from the other side, and started walking in front of me. Smack.. she bounced off the front right side of the bike. Landed on her arm and hit the back of her head, not wearing a helmet while crossing the road .. She was conscious, her eyes were focused, and her voice was normal. Bystanders gawking but not lifting a finger to help, my girlfriend walked her to the hospital and I rode the to meet them. She's an intern in the hospital, probably training to be a nurse.

    ER doctor ordered a CT scan and an X-ray. Her upper arm was broken in the middle, completely snapped, a clean break. CT scan showed nothing, her head was ok. They wanted to wait a couple of days before they operate on her arm!

    Confused, I first thought of calling Euphonis, older than dinosaurs in China, he was able to put some sense in me. Police were not involved so far, but the family said we have to pay all medical expenses. At 9.30 we called the police. The came made their report, ruled that we must pay first, and the detailed report will be issued later. Insurance company said the same thing. So far we payed 8000rmb.

    I was in the bus lane, and she was crossing over the fence, from my left. How can this possibly be my fault? I usually brake expecting someone to jump out from a bus station, even on the other side, but there wasn't a bus station in sight.

    How does the police report affect what the insurance pays?
    What should I look out for?
    I'll write more later, we have to go meet the parents now...
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  2. #2 Re: Had an accident 
    grumpy old sod jape's Avatar
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    If it is any consolation mate, you did the right thing. No question.

    Not just now but when you went through the bother of getting legal. Seems from reading other reports in these forum pages that at present the foreigner is always wrong, hopefully just that any car/m'bike rider is always wrong when a pedestrian is injured.

    The lass must be in serious pain and could have been killed, will certainly lose work time without pay probably. Goodness knows why she was in the road but we all make mistakes, you can't gain anything from blaming her. It was an accident.

    This is not a good situation for you but it shows why we go on and on about being legal and insured where you possibly can.

    Life is up and down, accidents happen, your turn mate. best way to look at it.

    Again Naim, doing the right thing is sometimes just a 'reward in heaven' but the real place heaven is, is in your heart and in your GF's - so take strength from that, you worked together well to best solve the situation.
    Last edited by jape; 03-17-2011 at 06:20 AM.
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  3. #3 Re: Had an accident 
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    Sorry, I can't give you any answers on this!

    I do however wonder, what if you don't have 8000 RMB at that moment?
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  4. #4 Re: Had an accident 
    Life Is Good! ChinaV's Avatar
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    It sucks when bad things happen to good people, sorry to hear about your incident.

    I have no sympathy for the girl, it was not an accident, she deliberately hopped a barrier that was put in place to prevent such behavior. In most places, they started with concrete barriers and have now moved to 2 meter tall fences to stop these things from happening. I'm surprised the CT scan didn't show brain damage, because anyone hopping a fence to cross a GIANT road like that has problems.

    I guess the first reaction we have to these things is "who's fault is it". Unfortunately, in this country, that is not the issue, and the outcome of these events will have nothing to do with fault. It was not yours, but you will end up paying, and my fear is that, as the family starts to grasp the situation of a foreigner being involved, the extortion will start. Hopefully that will not be the case. I don't know if there is any way to get the insurance company involved now, but it may be good to have them handle negotiations. Check your policy, and find what kind of coverage amount you have. I've purchased a bunch of bikes, and each time they try to sell me some crappy policy that covers little or nothing. A word to other people, up your coverage, and be sure it will take care of you in an incident like this. I don't know what to think with the police issue. You fled the scene of the accident, even though you did it with the right intentions. They can't investigate the accident scene, so this might not sit well with the insurance company.

    As Jape said, "ups and downs", and you have obviously done the right thing during this major downer.

    We're here for you man.

    Cheers!
    ChinaV
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  5. #5 Re: Had an accident 
    MCM Chinese fellow td_ref's Avatar
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    fxxk, this is nasty. A situation like this you would really have your bike legal and full valid driving license unless your have connection like Ligang. Otherwise the police would accuse criminal act and full responsible.

    Insurance company has 1 policy cover this, it is call 3rd party coverage, you need to make sure how much is cover.

    If you are NOT covered with 3rd party policy, don't take full responsibility, do expect to pay. (if police report says you are 60% responsible, for that 8000 expense, the girl should pay 3200. )

    If you DO cover with sufficient amount for the medical expenses, it's ok to admit full responsibility let the IC pay for you.

    The police report should reflect how much responsible for each party (report signature needed, you dont have to sign if you disagree with report).
    make the smart choice for minimize your lost.

    TD.
    Last edited by td_ref; 03-17-2011 at 06:04 AM. Reason: about insurance company
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  6. #6 Re: Had an accident 
    Senior C-Moto Guru euphonius's Avatar
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    To the best of my knowledge, Naim IS fully legal on his bike -- properly registered, insured and licensed. That both the police and the insurance company have pressured him to finance the girl's treatment is alarming and vexing, but, unfortunately, probably not uncommon in China. Naim is really fortunate to have a very capable and clever and kind girlfriend standing with him through this. But she, too, is inexperienced in handling such a situation, so they are doing the best they can given the way the decks seem to be stacked against them.

    It's hard to believe that the situation could be any worse, but it could -- a lot worse -- if Naim were not fully legal, or if he were impaired, or if the girl were some fatcat's daughter, etc, etc, etc. In the case of being impaired or unlicensed or unregistered, a finding of 100% responsibility is automatic, as all of us who have taken the drivers license exam in China should know.

    Naim, hang tough, and please keep us posted to the extent you feel comfortable. And feel free to PM or call at any time.

    chin high!
    cheers
    jkp
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  7. #7 Re: Had an accident 
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    Quote Originally Posted by slabo View Post
    So far we payed 8000rmb.
    That's pretty outrageous. When I broke my arm last year I paid 300 RMB at People's # 6 in Shanghai. That included Xray and cast. Granted, I have no idea how much a CT scan is in China (almost got one last month) but I believe you have paid enough. Have you sought out a Chinese lawyer? Even if just for advice on how to proceed, if I were you I would do this asap. The accident was in no bloody way your fault.

    I'm sure it didn't even occur to you at the time but good for you for doing the right thing (again), not just leaving the scene of the accident (as I have unfortunately witnessed on several occasions). That being said it's time to start looking after your ass on this. Get some proper advice and do what you can to prevent getting into more trouble about something that was clearly not your fault.
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  8. #8 Re: Had an accident 
    grumpy old sod jape's Avatar
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    And I agree you should get legal advice, however be careful, lawyers are usually sharks too the world over, try and find a recommended one connected to school or family. Although I feel sympathy for the lass as I said, because every one of us does such things at some time or another, ( in a hurry to get to work, to meet lover, scared of losing job, kids at the babysitters, another route dangerous etc.) - the circumstances suggest you were not to blame at all of course. Might be time for your GF to get her whiplash and shock treated and her distress noted and a counter-claim prepared. Then it is one citizen against another and might just stop at that and turn it to one side from you. But you never know either - if the sharks keep out of it, the lass and her family may even be decent appreciative folk if you tell them firmly you are not going to be taken for a ride (excuse the pun).
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  9. #9 Re: Had an accident 
    Danger, Will Robinson! Lao Jia Hou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChinaV View Post
    I guess the first reaction we have to these things is "who's fault is it". Unfortunately, in this country, that is not the issue, and the outcome of these events will have nothing to do with fault. It was not yours, but you will end up paying, and my fear is that, as the family starts to grasp the situation of a foreigner being involved, the extortion will start. Hopefully that will not be the case.
    Very, very sorry to hear about your mishap.

    What I have heard from several other foreigners who have had accidents is that "fault" is a western concept that isn't really regarded with any paramountcy in China. First, a foreigner is almost always considered to be "at fault". Second, a foreigner is almost always considered to be "wealthy" with almost unlimited abilities to pay. Third, I have heard several stories from a lawyer-friend who notes that the courts look at the principle of "the harmonious society", where if it determines that you can afford to pay, you will pay, regardless of what we see as the obvious facts, logic and fault.

    Ideally, your insurance company will get involved and negotiate on your behalf.

    And I agree with Euphonius that an unregistered, uninsured bike, or an unlicensed driver is, without question, a recipe for unbelievable disaster. There is a story in Beijing of a foreigner hitting a little dog and being forced to pay a HUGE settlement because, although he had a driving license, his bike was illegal. He had to pay an unrealistic sum for mental anguish to the family. And, of course, he lost his fancy sport bike.

    Again, very very sorry man.
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  10. #10 Re: Had an accident 
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    This is horrible man. I hope everything works out alright. Same thing happened in the north with my buddy (also a foreigner) and he ended up getting extorted over it... Good luck!
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