Road-trip advice

[euphonius]

...As we know in China, things take forever to accomplish and lots of bureaucracy, paperwork, money, greasing the gears, etc. This isn't to say that registration is impossible, it's just very arduous and time consuming. It would be incorrect to even hint at the fact that getting something done in China is simple.

Dear Steve, again with all due respect, this is one great self-delusional heap of nonsense. In the three years you've been engaging in "full-blown illegal law flaunting," which really is the only way to describe what you are doing (and recommending), I and dewsnap and barry and pat and motokai and a couple dozen other riders have gotten legal motorcycle licenses, some having had overseas licenses and others starting here in china from scratch, and bought and registered motorcycles in a half-dozen or more cities. In each instance, the majority of the time required has been that needed to figure out the process, but once that was discovered the actual process was anything but "arduous and time-consuming". My license took me two tries, each involving a couple of hours primarily because of the long metro ride to the testing center, and my registation took me the better part of one afternoon. Soup to nuts. Legal. No "greasing of gears" or bribery or other shenanigans. A relatively straightforward, simple and convenient process that anyone, even you, could accomplish in the right frame of mind, which seems to be the actual problem here.

Again, in your three years of dithering and telling yourself how hard it is to get things done in China, everyone else seems to be getting along just fine. Standing in line with everyone else and getting legal.

In my case, I first need to get an actual motorcycle license, and back home is the best place for that. Right now I have managed to get a car drivers license which also took ages, and the details would be too much to get into.

I'm starting to get a sense that your problems getting licensed and registered are entirely of your own making. You want a license and a 沪C plate, just go do it. You'll need a bit north of $1000 for the plate, at last check. Everything else just requires that you show up and pay a few kuai, like everyone else here does. It'll take a couple of weeks, max. Not a year or three years or a decade.

There is more to learn here, actually unlearn, when I go back home and do the motorcycle tests and safety courses. If all goes well, more bureaucracy will be involved to transfer the license to a Chinese one in addition to my existing car license. Then there are issues with housing registration, and the location of the new house I moved to which should be valid since it's outside the middle ring road.

Huh? Unlearn? Er, like I said, I'm getting the feeling that your obstacles are all in your own mind. You need to get out of the echo chamber.

I sincerely hope that no one in this forum accepts your view that there is any "necessity" whatsoever to ride illegally, because there is none.

I'm not trying to be a prick about this, but I do care about newb riders and want everyone to enjoy a rich and satisfying experience while motorcycling in China, including you. Which will be my last word on the subject.

Ride safely!

[Steve_R]

This discussion obviously isn't going anywhere. Once I get that C-plate I'll check in with y'all

[fahni]

I wish that my friend who is riding illegal, trumpets it and is wondering why I bother to go legal would read this thread...

[Lao Jia Hou]

I wish that my friend who is riding illegal, trumpets it and is wondering why I bother to go legal would read this thread...

Unfortunately, it probably would make no difference, at all, to your friend.

People are going to ride illegal (probably stolen) bikes if they get them cheap, and they believe that they won't get caught, or that nothing bad could happen to them. And let's admit it, most motorcyclists are inherent risk-takers.

[felix]

Though i definitely advocate legal riding in china and have always made sure to be all legal myself, let me just play satan's preacher here a bit.

Firstly, riding legally may have the moral high ground in this debate but illegal riders certainly have the numbers. Just because you don't hear about them on this forum doesn't mean they don't exist. Most of us long-termers in china frequent both chinese and foreign rider clubs. How many people can you say ride legally in those clubs, honestly? 20%, 30%? I'm not saying it's a good thing, i'm saying a lot of people are getting away with it. The attitude around here seems to be saying "ride legal or get deported" but i that's not the case. Ride illegal and you'll probably get away with it. Getting legal is like insurance: if you fuck up and you're legal you're just more likely to survive the legal aftermath.

Secondly, i am totally with steve on the 'would you ride illegal back home?' argument being irrelevant in china. China is a Dick to bikers and we all know this. Having been lucky enough to find a way to get legal here does not take anything away from the fact that it is a total headfuck. Euphonious and all you supporters of this argument, if freeways were illegal to bikes back home, would you persistently try to get on them knowing that it will likely result in problems with the police? You've paid the (outrageous) price of admission to legal riding in shanghai, does this make you above the law for other matters relating to biking in china? I'm not trying to make any enemies here, i'm just sayin that the way you regard illegal riders in china might be the same that car drivers regard you on the freeways: "i've paid the price of admission on this road (a car), how does this asshole think he can get away with it?"

[corporal_clegg]

I will update the getting a licence & getting legal thread here soon with my own experience before I throw away all the scraps of paper this process has burdened me with. It is indeed easy when you know exactly what you're doing. In the last month I have spent about four or five whole days, hours and hours walking around (today in the pissing rain) to get my sh*t together. Following leads and misinformation has used most of that time. Knowing what you're doing you could probably set all the gears in motion in only one day (after finding a bike) When the dust has settled I will detail my adventure. I only decided to get a bike last month and within one more month I will be biked and legal (pending further setbacks).

I would share what I have learned (including how to get a hu-c in your name when your current living address does not allow it) so that others may find their attempts free from unnecessary bs.

WHERE IS PAL?!

[dewsnap]

I've just found this thread and i have to say it's been an interesting read...

My only offering to the discussion is to highlight that obtaining the bike license in Shanghai (China?) is really simple and there're no excuses for not doing it. I've said before that the whole process from health check to black book (driving license) took me a mere 10 weeks. It's certainly a much cheaper and easier process than back in the UK.

Everyone's entitled to make their own decisions; riding legally or not. I don't really care. I was one of the guys blasting around illegally on a scooter for 12 months, and i only decided to get legal when i couldn't get petrol anymore. I'm married with a baby now so i dont want to risk deportation or heavy fines. Each to their own.

After talking to other bikers in China though it's become painfully obvious that having a minor 'off' or scrape or perhaps a major incident is pretty much a matter of when rather than if. If you're unfortunate to have another person involved and you don't have a license, there's no getting away from it, you're screwed. Big time! Blatant fact!

A Shanghainese friend of mine was riding along a highway in Anji, fully licensed, insured, registered, legit, when he was hit by a girl on a scooter without plates. She had no license or helmet and was riding irratically. The guy was at no fault, but the police stung with a 150,000 rmb fine or prison time, probably because he was an out-of-towner. Can you imagine how that would have panned out if the rider was a foreiger without a license?

... 10 weeks to get the driving license from start to finish, it's a no brainer.

[Steve_R]

Some good points made by Felix ... the reality on the ground, in terms of numbers, is that more bikes are out there illegally or semi-legally than legally. This of course takes into account our Chinese riding brothers / colleagues, who make up the vast majority of motorcycle or scooter riders on the streets.

A quick peruse through the Chinese forums will find many highly against the policies and laws on bikes, and using very harsh words spoken against their own government and the police who enforce the rules (for example, with the fueling ban in Shanghai) and other actions that discriminate against those who don't have big bucks. But that's China in general, as the masses are increasingly dissatisfied with the CCP and how they favor the rich.

For those Chinese flushed with cash, and the expats who have paid membership in the club, it is understandable they would look down on the majority of illegal or semi-legal riders who haven't paid this admission fee, or haven't yet. There is probably anger also, in the sense that those who have paid the fee still can't access the expressways, ride on the 'gao jia', and face multiple bike bans outside of their registered city. For example, the guy with a registered Shanghai plate who still got smoked with a fine in Anji just because he was an out-of-towner in that area.

Meanwhile, those who don't pay the admission fee into the club can still cruise around with a low risk of getting caught, and still enjoy many of the benefits of those who have paid their dues.

Naturally, this would provoke a response of anger from those who have shelled out big bucks to be legal, and frankly, I can't blame them for getting angry.

In the long-term, as I've mentioned before, getting legal is the way to go. It's basically like insurance. In my own case I have a plan for it, and I'm not in any great hurry because I want to get as much information as possible from others and make sure that when I make the attempt, I succeed on the first try.

Sure it's easy to be legal if you know how, but part of the difficulty is learning how it's done, and that's where the time is needed. Meanwhile, there is no pressing urgency to do it now because I can still ride semi-legally along with hundreds of others of my Chinese colleagues. As others have mentioned, they're out riding the streets and not posting in motorcycle forums.

[Pal]

WHERE IS PAL?!

Stop shouting, I hear you....

Looks like your taking steps in the right direction and will loose your moron status ("I do what I want in China and ride with fake plates or no plates / driving-license") very soon.

Ride safe & hang loose! PAL

ps: the wall of shame out at scooter-town....

[td_ref]

“我们村里我最帅1314”
, that's spirit.
I should get that plate for special occasions.