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  1. #11 Re: GZ250 (GN250) & TU250 (Qingqi) 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    The arm is much better thanks,

    I was just looking at engine families, wondering which out of all offered in the USA would meet that CO level of 2 g/km and only about 33% do. Or you could say that 66% of all the current engine families offered in the USA would not meet the new Chinese standard.

    So here we are and china has stricter emission standards then the US?

    That’s motorcycles I wonder about autos….or other aspect of environmental protections. They have huge problems with pollution in china.

    I do not think they should export anything below their own new standards. If they do it will only allow for illegal activity. It will also bring about pollution problems in developing nations. With being the largest economy comes responsibility.
     

  2. #12 Re: GZ250 (GN250) & TU250 (Qingqi) 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    I would say that Zongshen is in Brazil to set up the manufacturing of electrics and will then access the lithium in Bolivia and they will develop batteries to power them. I read that Bolivia has the largest deposits of Lithium in the world. The new standards will empower that and global alignment on the higher standards are inevitable.
     

  3. #13 Re: GZ250 (GN250) & TU250 (Qingqi) 
    Senior C-Moto Guru euphonius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJH View Post
    The arm is much better thanks,
    Very glad to hear it!

    Quote Originally Posted by MJH View Post
    ....So here we are and china has stricter emission standards then the US?

    That’s motorcycles I wonder about autos….or other aspect of environmental protections. They have huge problems with pollution in china.

    I do not think they should export anything below their own new standards. If they do it will only allow for illegal activity. It will also bring about pollution problems in developing nations. With being the largest economy comes responsibility.
    Actually, the US is a real laggard in emissions controls, globally speaking. For decades, Detroit adroitly blocked both stricter emissions controls and higher mileage standards, and now look what you've got: Lots of engines that will only cut the mustard in the US, but nowhere else -- not even in China. How smart was that?

    America is going through a huge reality check right now, but is pretty much oblivious to it. I like Joe Nocera, but his column in the NYTimes about the Chevy Volt totally missed the point. He and most people simply cannot even conceptualize of a future where it is not reasonable to pilot yourself around in a two-ton box made of plastic and metal, and where "commutes" of 30, 50 or 100 miles, not to mention 10 miles or less, are no longer viable. Exurbs will either have to develop comprehensive local services, including food and energy, or expire. Transportation itself will become a luxury, as it was 200 years ago. I digress.........

    Meanwhile, thank g_d for motorcycles (and bicycles, and legs to walk on...)

    cheers
    jkp
    Shanghai
    2010 JH600 "Merkin Muffley" (in Shanghai)
    2000 KLR650 "Feezer Ablanalp" (in California)
     

  4. #14 Re: GZ250 (GN250) & TU250 (Qingqi) 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    Some engines are just inherently cleaner burning then others, it could be why the very popular 350cc Honda twin never got past 1976? Those cleaner burning engines would be even cleaner with EFI, but the technology requires people that typically command high salaries and also technicians rather then mechanics. So it drive eduction and training, not only in engineering and technical training but in process management.

    It is not good to allow manufactures to produce and sell both, they need to only produce the cleaner engines. Companies that do not have something to work with will keep flooding the export markets, they will rob the better models from the markets. They can only thrive through volume and if the higher standard can be avoided with exports only that are non-conforming domestically they will avoid the domestic market. They will also sell illegal models out the back doors with falsified paper work.

    They need to submit only valid C3 models for production and those need to also meet all the other standards by default. Even if a market has no regulations they should volunteer to only supply cleaner burning models.

    That again drives the technology and supply chain, the cleaner engines are not that expensive only the development of them is. It is then recovered with unit sales at smaller margins over higher volumes over longer time frames. It is or would be the government banks that must back that with low or no interest loans.

    A good approach is to empower the engine manufacturers and encourage them to supply only engines and not complete models. Then others can develop designs off the engines. Those will thrive as engine sources and that is were the backing or funding should go even if they are funding the license from an outside source that has the technology. The smallest engine could be displaced with electrics, but they have to pioneer and source affordable lithium batteries the lead acid is an environmental hazard. Even if they relinquish that to Honda they should but only if manufactured in china.

    I do not think the higher standard should be only on under or over in engine size it should be on all classes and force the change. But they need to fund it and allow bringing in new investors as well.

    The main goal would be not to displace too many workers over the changes. But be aware as time goes on they may begin to confiscate and destroy what is illegal. Those that are selling or buying what they know is not compliant could loose it. They opened Pandora’s box with this regulation the back lash will be illegal activity and then actions in response to that.


     

  5. #15 Re: GZ250 (GN250) & TU250 (Qingqi) 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    Too expensive....but getting more interesting.
    ZERO

    Derbi has an electric model and you can be sure that Zongshen has its eye on it.
     

  6. #16 Re: GZ250 (GN250) & TU250 (Qingqi) 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    Fisker
    Tesla

    These are two new car companies…both are operating out of retooled GM plants. One in Freemont and the other in Delaware.

    Also GE is encouraging it.
     

  7. #17 Re: GZ250 (GN250) & TU250 (Qingqi) 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/200...IUM_index.html

    I would like to develop a consortium that capitalizes on the lithium and that would include distributed manufacturing across global markets.

    Bolivia would be the center for battery research and development. But even better it could be a Global project for an emission free country.

    Bolivia plans to tap its vast hydroelectric potential are not clear. In the late 1980s, Bolivia's hydroelectricity capacity of approximately 300 megawatts represented only 2 percent of the 18,000-megawatt potential, estimated by engineering studies performed in the 1970s and 1980s. Although small- and medium-sized hydroelectric projects were under way through regional or local governments, any large-scale projects were dependent on negotiations in progress with Brazil over the price for natural gas exports.

    I wonder if the could strike deal with the Chinese to develop the hydroelectric for access to the Lithium, under a contingency that the production of the actual batteries be done in Bolivia.

    I would like to see the lithium be developed as an economic feeder to cascade into other aspects of development within Bolivia. To develop high technology grids and public social infrastructure, such as health care and education as well as sustainable energy efficient housing.
     

  8. #18 Re: GZ250 (GN250) & TU250 (Qingqi) 
    C-Moto Guru MotoKai's Avatar
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    If you want a sneak peek at how a Telsa works and what goes into the assembly, check this out:

    _____________________
    嘉陵 JH600-A (Upgraded)
     

  9. #19 Re: GZ250 (GN250) & TU250 (Qingqi) 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    The factory in Freemont was funded through the federal stimulus, think about the short sighted comment “it did not work” the automotive bailout included the funding of retooling factories that were taken off line by GM. The series of events were more brilliant then anything, but were discounted and pushed back by political wrangling.
     

  10. #20 Re: GZ250 (GN250) & TU250 (Qingqi) 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    Bolivia has an issue with capitalism, they have a history of issues with the corporate models. Progress often not seen as that progressive often seen as regressive.

    Sometimes, actually often, political wrangling prevent progress it stifles it works to offset it with rhetoric and even outright lies to gain a footing. If that footing is set on deceit and then takes hold it may hold on to the misconception and falsities actually to the extent that could drive down a nation.
     

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