JH600 Valve Problem

**Lao Jia Hou** · 08-08-2011, 05:19 PM

I was at the service center on Monday (yesterday) to get my "B" serviced. Upon leaving, the B stalled, and stalled again, and again ... right in front of the mechanic and ZHT. Their response was "oh, the B's do that, some more than others."

I again asked about the ECU update ... and they again responded with "the B's can't be updated." So, I again asked about my 2010 "A" (which also stalls, albeit not as much), and they again said "no, we can't update that one either."

Then I asked about the brand new 2011 "A" sitting in the shop, the latest 2011 C3 version and they said "Jialing has changed the ECU and the injectors, and new updated ones are supplied with the new 2011 JH600." So I said "great, order me these new parts and install them." Their response: "the new ones can't be installed in the old bikes, such as your 2010." Huh? WTF?

Now, I don't know if I look like someone that just fell off the cabbage truck, but it seems pretty damn obvious to me that whatever was updated/changed can be installed on our bikes, even if it has to come as a package. There is no damn way that Jialing changed every single part on our bikes on the new model. I'm pretty damn sure that 98% of the 2011 model is using the exact same parts out of the exact same bins as the 2010 model. I just want that 1 or 2% of new goodies.

Somehow, IMHO, we're not getting the full story about what is going on here.

I'm of the mind that we should get our own diagnostic & mapping software and our own connection cable and work this out ... and also get a set of new parts that were incorporated into the new 2011 JH600. Nobody at Jialing is going to do it for us, that's for damn sure! Maybe Bosch would help us, directly?

In fairness, this stalling issue is not unique to the JH600 ... it is hitting a lot of new, complex bikes, such as the BMW 650 and 800, all KTMs, as well as the new Triumph Tiger 800. The big difference with the JH600 is that we get ZERO support. BMW, KTM and Triumph at least try to have happy customers.

There IS a solution - but I think we're on our own to figure it out.

FYI, I also found the official Jialing service center's parts price & shop hour listings. Interesting read. It articulates a lot of service functions, including parts prices, and states how much the service centers should be charging, based on a rate of 30 rmb/hour. Want to replace your frame? A 10 hour job, with a total labor cost of 300 rmb (about $45). Amazing - $45 to completely disassemble/reassemble a bike at an authorized service center. I wonder if ChinaV would do it for, say, $30?

I will try to scan it in and post it. It is only a few pages.

**Lao Jia Hou** · 08-08-2011, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by euphonius

OK, maybe we just start raining down on Jialing like a ton of bricks.

An idea that might be effective ... how about if half a dozen of us foreign JH600 owners set up a little "lemon"-ade stand outside the main doors of of the 2011 Chongqing MC show?

I think that might get Jialing's attention.

grrrrr - i need my meds.

**euphonius** · 08-09-2011, 01:34 AM

I'm thinking more along your later comment than the earlier -- i.e., putting some pressure on Jialing rather than trying to take these ECU/EFI modifications in our own hands. Lao Zhou told me they sacked the entire retail sales/marketing department, where he worked along with a mixed bag of colleagues. Zhou told me that the head of the department that makes and markets the JH600 asked him if he'd stay on call to handle folks like us, and Zhou, a wonderful guy, said he would not have it any other way.

I'd say Lao Zhou would be a good place to start, to suss out the current strategy and see if we can find someone senior to hit with a good cop bad cop routine. Frankly, I'd love to know who is responsible for this bike, and start working with them in a friendly supportive manner so that they understand that customers are not just faceless importers in distant lands who rebadge the bikes to mask their origins, but actual motorcyclists who really really really want to love their products.

And, yes, we should be thinking about a bit of "consumer action" at the Chongqing show. A lemon-aid stand!

cheers

**Barry** · 08-09-2011, 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by euphonius

Damn and double damn.

My bike stalls from time to time, but why would it be that mine stalls so much less than yours.

Perhaps we should try to quantify the problem with some data on how often it happens to each of us. Then we can plan a class-action lawsuit. OK, maybe we just start raining down on Jialing like a ton of bricks.

How about other JH600 owners? Richard? David? Barry? Pfaelzer? Others?

cheers

My bike also stalls more often lately, I was also thinking it might be humidity related. Starting a bit harder than before! But what's even more annoying, once started and letting it run idle for let's say 30 seconds it dies again and after restarting the same thing will happen another time. Didn't have this at all before.

**euphonius** · 08-09-2011, 01:50 AM

Originally Posted by Barry

...once started and letting it run idle for let's say 30 seconds it dies again and after restarting the same thing will happen another time...

This has been standard operating procedure for mine since day one. Fires up almost instantly, idles for 25-30 seconds. Dies. Predictable as an opera diva. But then rarely dies during normal operation (knock wood). Once in a while during downshifting, but even that is rare.

But I'm definitely miffed about the message Jialing is putting out that we pre-2011 buyers are shitoutofluck for upgrades. The word in 2009 and 2010 was that Jialing just wasn't willing to pay Bosch for the next upgrade, so we were counseled to wait until there were sufficient sales to justify the expense. So why the sudden shift? Surely it's not unreasonable to imagine swapping out the injector and ECU.

Perhaps this is something we could discuss with AVL. Their big design shop is here in Shanghai, and I imagine that may be where the engine was designed/modified for the JH600. Lemme see if I can befriend someone there...

cheers

**MotoKai** · 08-09-2011, 02:23 AM

Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

Then I asked about the brand new 2011 "A" sitting in the shop, the latest 2011 C3 version and they said "Jialing has changed the ECU and the injectors, and new updated ones are supplied with the new 2011 JH600." So I said "great, order me these new parts and install them." Their response: "the new ones can't be installed in the old bikes, such as your 2010." Huh? WTF?

Politics, conspiracy theories, and technical limitations aside....how much would it cost for a new ECU and EFI "if" one were to buy a 2011 version?
Didn't see these parts listed here.

**Barry** · 08-09-2011, 02:31 AM

Originally Posted by MotoKai

Politics, conspiracy theories, and technical limitations aside....how much would it cost for a new ECU and EFI "if" one were to buy a 2011 version?
Didn't see these parts listed here.

One time a few months ago when my girlfriend asked the Jialing factory about a new ECU, they said I would also have to replace some other things. Don't know what those other parts are, but they were talking about 2000 RMB in total! I'm also not 100% sure, if this indeed was the latest version of the ECU with all other necessary parts they were talking about.

**MotoKai** · 08-09-2011, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by MotoKai

During the valve repair the coolant was dumped out when they removed the radiator. After putting the bike back together, the fluid was replaced with H20 rather than coolant. Could this have an effect?

Experts agree - do not use tap water.
* Water alone is corrosive and it does not keep your seals, gaskets, water pump and water pump impeller shaft lubricated enough.
* Distilled water is preferable to tap water for use in cooling systems. The minerals and ions typically found in tap water can be corrosive to internal engine components, and can cause a more rapid depletion of the anti-corrosion additives found in most antifreeze formulations

Anyway, the Huangpujiang water was emptied and replaced with coolant.
Rule of thumb: If it's not good enough for Milton's tea, it doesn't belong in your Moto!

Also did a trickle charge last night, since I was having the battery issues. Today rode to work (5km) then to the Shanghai South Train Station (8km) and she only stalled 3 times and now have NO PROBLEMS starting up.