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  1. #11 Re: Shineray XY400GY 400cc Adventure Bike 3d model pics 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    My point was nothing more then a remolded set of body panels, what would be required to make the above concept from an existing Shineray model.


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  2. #12 Re: Shineray XY400GY 400cc Adventure Bike 3d model pics 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    If you are selling into a market the, then within that is support and with it is parts and related resources.

    I once called Qlink and asked how many of the XP200 do you have in stock, the response was 14 in black.

    I once called Massimo and asked how many of the NF250 do you have in stock,. It took a while for the representative to say they had none left in the warehouse.

    Logic would say that the person answering the phone should be able to see the location of all of the bikes wherever they are located, then find one closest to my location. They have software that does distance calculation on ZIP codes. Then all the models get a zip code, they are assigned the zip code of the location they are at….think about it, they are not really sold until they are titled to an owner. By the way in the USA you are required to actually maintain such a list. A list of all the first owners, and guess what that includes their address that includes a zip code. Then you’re building sales data, and guess what else others in the industry are not and in that you gain what is called a competitive advantage. Because then you can see were your markets are within the big North America.

    To gain dealers you show them data, what you sell and what the margins are, what the consumer surveys say, what the dealers records are related to initial quality. Then you let your assemblers and Foreman see that in the factory.

    Here is another clever thought, if you share an engine type with Shineray, then you can offer an entrance into the market for them, the certificate for the EPA blankets the engine family. It would be clever if one entity managed that and also the parts lists and what is the shared and what it not. You also need staff that can address federal regulations, did you know all of your products being sold in the USA are violating existing federal regulations? I believe you have been told, did it register in your organization?

    It’s about connections as in relationships that are real, simply collecting up different manufactured products and adding a trivial name is not real, its contrived and in that useless. It reeks of diversionary and avoiding what…liability?

    There is an expression, it’s dazzle them with brilliance or baffle them with bullshit, your agent in the US is all about the later.
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  3. #13 Re: Shineray XY400GY 400cc Adventure Bike 3d model pics 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    Its not that complicated, the product have to be monitored through the entire process. But ignoring any part of that process, fragments the process and in that it becomes unaccountable. The line workers are probably one of the most crucial elements of the process, the assemblers.

    Typically an assembly line is in sections, nodes with events that occur at them. They are supplied with bins of parts and typically each node adds something.

    That event is part of a series, its an event within the series. One series may assemble a certain number of models and in that each model has sequential events that occur, its called an assembly line. Ideally you identify each event and also each assembler on that event.

    In the end, that being a finished model or a set of finished models is an identifiable series. It is assigned a unique vehicle identification number and with it is a series number, however that series needs to have subordinate data. That data would identify all the parts and also all those that added the parts, what who and when.

    Then you have lists of vehicles with identifiers, when they leave the factory the list get augmented with more codes, location codes that follow them, they are logistical codes. They are used to count and also to track lead times and should actually be augmented in the end with actual owners names and addresses.

    Then you have your list and you satisfy most if not all regulation in doing that, because now as each model incurs a part replacement or is taken in for servicing it get a trouble ticket and code. The mechanic would be assigned an ID number and would be ideally trained on the system. They would record all parts orders and replacements as well as document systems and or diagnoses and related resolutions. That all would be monitored by a service manager that would review all tickets for accuracy. That’s important because in that you build a knowledge base. In that high propensity of events, events that are common on a model launch action events, it sends notices or bulletins to both the shop floors. That being the factory and also to dealers.

    But you have to also consider motivation and simply cannot punish the bad you also have to reward the good. So you should be able to see that accountability is very important.

    If you consider that and the potential to see the time from the series creation at the factory to the final sale to a consumer and the results, its ideal. You then can meter your lines to meet demand and take time to refine the process as you do. You see what sells and with customer data, you can survey them and introduce concepts and ideas to them.
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  4. #14 Re: Shineray XY400GY 400cc Adventure Bike 3d model pics 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    Here is good example of a website, http://www.loncin.ca/models.aspx

    Its not perfect the schematics are not clear, the diagrams should be clear. But it is or would be very useful and could be expanded, it has all the parts listed for each model.

    Such a system could be used to identify each part and also specially for a series, that being if a part changes so does the related part number for that series. Since the part list is a table, then adding a code for the series only shows parts with that specific series number associated with the series Id. That’s called a query, when entering a specific vehicle identification number it initiates a query. Each part should have an associated data sheet, it can be so detailed that it could include a source identification code. That allows for clever parts source management or quality control if internally manufactured. It can allow for cost control since revisiting and replacing part costs. All parts have a life span and as a manufacturer it is smart, you would have metrics for each part…you should strive to get data back on reliability of parts. The goal is to eliminate poor sources and embrace higher quality. It also allows for synergistic alignment with sources as suppliers, sending them feedback.

    I would say that if you intend to sell a model with electric fuel injection you better offer technical training and at the dealer level, and like I pointed out earlier you need to have a support system and also train at the dealer level on how to use that system. That means every dealer must have a computer terminal and also high speed internet. That should include a scanner and each model should have a bar code that pulls up the list and identifies the model, the specific model of a specific series. Once the bike is sold to the customer you should send them a card with the code on it, then they should be able to enter the code each time they address the support system. Then each individual bike has an associated data sheet, in fact it would be required for a warranty. Then as a function of quality you work to reduce the claims, not by avoiding or denying them but by simply eliminating them at the source. That is either the supplier or the assemblers or both.

    Multiple manufacturers should share such a system, then in that they can cross reference parts, some shared and some propriety. Working in reverse a query and a part number could bring up a list of models from a list of manufacturers. That’s important it helps to isolate bad suppliers, if they are not using a identifiable part numbers they could be simply avoiding accountability. They could be commonly used and only because they are the cheapest source. But disposable drives total costs higher over the life of a product and also has heavy losses in future opportunities, it kills reputations and prevent repeat buyers.

    It really all begins in the factory, but has to be linked to the market, if it fails it has to feed that back and even if it takes a redesign then that has to happen. Each series should have increased quality…it has to be continuous, just to refine what exist and the system that supports it happening.
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  5. #15 Re: Shineray XY400GY 400cc Adventure Bike 3d model pics 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    Consider this….it’s a importer that is managing the distribution of more then one brand. They are not creating a brand and offering multiple brand names. That is a distributor and its real, it not contrived, may not be that successful but its defiantly presenting itself professionally.

    http://www.cmimotor.ca/

    All that site does or represents is a portal to the actual sites of each actual manufacture. Click on access and you see the portal gateway.

    I think its all about managed services, if a manufacturer does not have a good website then creating one for them a service. If they do not have good documentation, again a service.

    If you click on any of the links you then are at the specific brands site…its a superior business model.

    opposed to this:

    The concept of Massimo is queer…then they also have all the redundancy, like Blue Devil Motors they set up at least three or four redundant sites. Its gross the approach they are taking to the market.

    http://www.bluedevilpowersports.com/
    http://www.yingangusa.com
    http://www.motosportsplanet.com
    http://www.scooters-wholesale.com
    http://massimomotor.com
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  6. #16 Re: Shineray XY400GY 400cc Adventure Bike 3d model pics 
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    So im thinking about one of those shinerays cos they seem to be available.
    Does anyone know anything about them? quality and reliability-wise
    The price is quite high for a Chinese brand (24k-30k) so maybe they finally made something a bit more reliable....i thought the long march (xy200gy-7) was great concept for long trips but not good enough for such according to the internet they break quite a lot.
    X5 costs over three times as much so im hoping for a good quality cos the bike looks great, 400cc is perfect for me and i will be needing dual purpose bike before april

    http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=...id=19674456938
    http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=...id=15685146301
    http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=...id=18483175660

    edit: zorge, youre right...sorry, already corrected
    Last edited by modron; 01-07-2013 at 12:09 PM.
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  7. #17 Re: Shineray XY400GY 400cc Adventure Bike 3d model pics 
    Senior C-Moto Guru Zorge's Avatar
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    Only last link is for new Shineray. First and second are for Xingyue bikes.
    Ask me nothing - I DO NOT speak english. Really...
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  8. #18 Re: Shineray XY400GY 400cc Adventure Bike 3d model pics 
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    looks like rear shock is a bit soft. with 40kg panniers off road might be a problem

    http://www.othermakes.net/2012/01/25...-x5-in-action/
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  9. #19 Re: Shineray XY400GY 400cc Adventure Bike 3d model pics 
    Senior C-Moto Guru ZMC888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by modron
    So im thinking about one of those shinerays cos they seem to be available.
    Does anyone know anything about them? quality and reliability-wise
    The price is quite high for a Chinese brand (24k-30k) so maybe they finally made something a bit more reliable....i thought the long march (xy200gy-7) was great concept for long trips but not good enough for such according to the internet they break quite a lot.
    X5 costs over three times as much so im hoping for a good quality cos the bike looks great, 400cc is perfect for me and i will be needing dual purpose bike before april
    Personally I wouldn't touch a Shineray or a Xingyue. They might be OK but they haven't been tested an the EFI fills me with dread, and knowing past let downs with Asiawing and Regal Raptor don't bode well. Also the price doesn't mean anything good about the bike, other than that's the maximum that they think someone will pay. They figure if a 600 4 is 40,000, and a 600 single is 32,000 then a 400 single must be about 25,000-30,000. It's not entirely their fault because Chinese buyers think 'if it is only 15,000-20,000 it must be rubbish' so won't buy it.
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  10. #20 Re: Shineray XY400GY 400cc Adventure Bike 3d model pics 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    I would not even consider one unless the retailer has some images with rows of them, that one bike could be a test bike. If a vendor cannot display some real photos of the bikes they really should not be getting any sales of them either. The bike should be retail priced below 27500 RMB and the factory should be promoting it better its not showing up in any foreign markets is it.


    Shineray should be setting up distribution in Eastern Europe, value pricing and insuring solid support.


    The way to establish entry into the market is to offer the best prices and creating lots of real owners attesting to the value of the motorcycles.


    Getting what you pay for is not a new adage, raising the price on a poorly made, poorly supported product or even one that is simply unknown does not negate the adage.


    They need at least 250 of those sold into a region that has the best support and also in a region that has a propensity to review them on the internet? They have to be committed to offer great support, to insure that if any issue pops up they have a first line of support at the dealers.


    The lower the price the more they sell, but establishing the initial perception of value in reality is actually proving its value and has nothing to do with pandering misinterpretations or misrepresentations of value. Over pricing does not make it worth more, it only means you paid too much for it.


    If they cannot come out of the gate accepting a break even in order to invest in a real market campaign they will not succeed, if they think inflating prices creates value that is simply pandering a misconception.
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