Fake plate/No plate experience and advice

[Steve_Halt]

Speaking of documents - I lent my wife a 150cc Suzuki EN-150 I legally bought from a legal dealer with a legal registration.
The cop stopped her, so she stopped. She had no driving license on her.
They took the bike to custody ASAP.
Monday morning gotta go to Police station argue my bike back.
Much shouting to be done.

[Nuhaus]

Long as you also have legal plates and legal insurance it should be no problem. If the bike is registered in your name I believe the fine is around 500.

[Steve_Halt]

I got all that.
Should be no problem. The cops were proud they caught a female species of laowai in the wild.

[TexasAggie]

Welcome to Nanjing!

[Steve_Halt]

Got the bike back: traffic police station - insurance agency - bike shop - insurance agency again - traffic police station - police custody parking lot.
Started at 8:30 am, finished at around 2:30 pm.

[bikerdoc]

so the question should be asked, would you normally condone such behaviour in your own country (operatibng a vehicle without the required drivers license? I know my answer would be... no, as getting caught or in a crash can have serious consequences! So why then do people feel they have some form of entitlement to do so in mainland China. If one is a foreigner then it is highly likely as such they have an educated background, or life experience or logic to help them make somewhat rational decisions in life. The other issue is as foreigners we are guests here, and should show more respect for the laws, despite what we see the locals doing... the proverb goes "if you saw one jumping off a cliff - would you follow?"

[TexasAggie]

Good points BikerDoc but I would remind all that if someone from China visits Texas with their Chinese drivers license, they are free to drive any Texas roads and present that Chinese drivers license and be good to go no more questions asked.

I have lived in Nanjing 8 years and my wife is from here. I love many things here but the constant push to make many things harder than they need to be gets old from time to time. It is also hard to know what the law is as it always seems to be a constant moving target depending on what city you are in or even what district of that city you are in.

Anyway, it is good to have another Nanjing rider here finally. I look forward to riding with Mr. Halt soon. For that matter, any of you that make it to Nanjing need to let me know in advance! I only know of jkp to have made it through this city one time and I missed him that time. I hope to get a second chance with someone.

Ride Safe.

[bikerdoc]

^true I agree, but we as a collected group must clean up our act, so that we are less likely to be targeted. China is taking a much tougher stance on many things and us foreigners and everything about us is included we might have been privileged once but those days are a thing of the past. I share your view in terms of how open the rest of the world is or at least the majority of it when it comes to equality etc, but China is what it is, a developing country which means that many things are in a constant state of flux - something we all have to get used too. My point is, it's a increasingly dangerous proposition to be riding a motorcycle in China already without adding the deficit of not doing so legally. It’s also important to know that China is getting tougher with vehicle control, and there can be a lack of transparency so one can run the real risk of having a vehicle seized and not getting it back.

[Steve_Halt]

Yesterday talked to my friend and wondered:
Cheapest legal new Chinese bike (not a scooter): 7000 - 10000 yuan.
License plates for that bike: another 9000 - 10000 yuan (and you will want to register it, otherwise why buy a legal bike in the first place?)
Insurance: 250 yuan/year.
Fines: 0 (I obey the traffic rules)
Time & nerve: buying a bike is quick, getting plates for it isn't. It's quite difficult for Chinese traffic police system to process foreign IDs and foreign driving licenses. Why process them, let's just not give those to foreigners! Problem solved. It took me 2 days in a local 车管所 to get the legal plates for the legally bought bike with all the papers at hand. It took me a long-long time to prove it to the police that my driving license is genuine and my bike's compliance certificate （合格证）is genuine as well. It took me a long time to explain that bike insurance was indeed bought in my name, and the insurance company had to write my English name in Chinese just because their system wouldn't process foreign names.

At the same time there's a place here in Nanjing called 堂子街, where I can buy a 2000 yuan illegal scooter (or 5000 yuan illegal motorbike). No license/ID required, no documents given.

If I'm riding that thing for a month without being caught, I get my money back in taxi fees that I don't have to pay. 20000 yuan will buy me 10 of those. In that case I won't even worry about getting that thing back once the police catch/stop me. Just give them the keys, take my lock, go get another bike and be aware of that particular traffic crossing.

What I'm saying here is: if Police want t all legal (like I want it to be), why make "legal" so goddamn expensive and complicated? Why offend and refuse and mock one of the few laowai who actually went to the lengths of getting all the Chinese paperwork straight? It's kinda discouraging.

[Lao Jia Hou]

This is a debate that won't convince anyone to become legal, regardless of how patently obvious it should be.

Back home, it is also possible to buy an "inexpensive" bike (i.e., stolen) and put fake plates on it, without insurance, etc. Back home, however, you are in really big trouble if caught.

Bit by bit, at least in Beijing, the "big trouble" situation is forming. Riding without a driving license, on an illegal bike, fakes plates, etc., creates a very real risk of jail time and your visa being canceled. Personally, I welcome this. Yup, time to clean up our acts.

In my experience, lots of people rationalize riding illegal bikes, etc., with a wide variety of excuses. Inevitably, the bottom line is always "it is cheaper to get an illegal bike, fake plate, etc." My response is .... look, legal bikes are available, insurance is available, etc., etc., etc. Yes, they are expensive. It is simply the price of admission. And the consequences of having an accident with an "illegal status" are dramatic.

The same futile argument applies to smoking ... I know it is very bad for me, but I do it anyways. I rationalize it by saying "it is my only vice, as I don't drink alcohol, I don't swear (much), and all my bikes (well, 90% of them) are 100% legal!" I doubt anyone can convince me to act rationally, even though I know that the likely outcome is dramatic.

By the way, each time I renew my insurance, do a plate transfer, or whatever, I am confronted with the English Name/Passport Number issues. Frustrating, but I simply remember that back home, we do not permit Chinese characters, and our data entry fields certainly won't accommodate the very lengthy Chinese ID number. Eventually, the Chinese side always manages to work out a solution for me. I have a Chinese name, and my passport number (which changes every 5 years) appears on my official Chinese documents.

As a side note, one thing I have certainly noticed over the past year is that it is common to hear quite negative comments about foreign riders flaunting Chinese traffic laws (e.g., no helmets, no plates, R9 scooters on the ring roads, etc). That negativity is certainly becoming more pronounced.

I'm looking forward to the day when overseas DLs (or IDPs) are accepted in China. One day it will happen.

Enuff said ... smoke break.