SKYTEAM

**culcune** · 01-28-2012, 10:55 PM

I just wrote to Skyteam US asking to consider bringing the ST 250 and V-Raptor to the US. For the heck of it, I think if we had more people write asking the same thing, and if Bill from Moto-Scoot could put in a suggestion, we could possibly get them here?

http://www.skyteamusa.com/Contact.html

**MOTO-SCOOT BILL** · 01-29-2012, 02:23 AM

i will put in my 2 cents worth. i actually am planning a visit to their facility in california soon. maybe things will keep looking bright for their future goals, and they will keep bringing new models into the u.s. market......i sure hope so!

**culcune** · 01-29-2012, 05:14 PM

Bill, when are you going? I will probably be in the L.A. area in early April, or later in April. Besides their minis, and their new ACE 125, there are really no more bikes besides the ST 250 and V-Raptor to bring to the US. Now that we know they have a US operation, it should be easy for them! Both bikes will help complete a full lineup of street/enduro bikes (ok, the ACE is a little stretch for being anywhere near dirt). Their minis are great campground bikes (Pitster advertised in a RV magazine when they first introduced their Skyteam Classic 125), and are also good ride around town bikes (i.e. to ride from your RV into town), while their upcoming ACE is aimed at the urban scooter crowd. Obviously, their bigger bikes are a MUST to fullfill their lineup...

**MOTO-SCOOT BILL** · 01-29-2012, 06:32 PM

i agree with the bigger bike. the only catch is if the engine a different model than the other mills, it has to go through epa like the ace just did and cost about 30-40 k. if it were not so expensive to go through epa testing, then everything would make it over here.

they have to be able to justify that cost with projected sales numbers. i hope to be going out there in may. maybe we could cordinate the time. cheerz!

**culcune** · 01-29-2012, 07:36 PM

I think that a few years ago, when United Motors had the ST enduro with the 200cc engine, UM did the EPA (they held exclusive rights at the time). The 223cc engine would be a perfect investment for them (provided EPA certification allows the same engine in a few bikes) because their ACE 125 with a bigger engine would be perfect competition to Cleveland Cycle Works's Misfit, their ST 250 enduro would compete with Qingqi's (Qlink's) 200 and now Qingqi's own 250 Liger enduro (which compete as lower cost alternatives to japanese bikes), and their V-Raptor with a 250 engine would fit the TW200 niche market similar to the CT70-clone market of being on the back of RVs, but for more serious trail exploring. I am pretty sure that competing for market share in the US is not bringing multi-millions for the smaller companies like Skyteam, Lifan, Qingqi, etc., but $40k, while a big chunk of change, is an investment and tax write-off, while ensuring expanded sales of bikes in the 250 class. We can only cross our collective fingers! And I could probably find time in May...

**MJH** · 01-29-2012, 08:46 PM

I believe the application fee for a motorcycle is $2,414.00

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2004/pdf/04-10338.pdf

See table II A-1
MC (motorcycle) HW (highway) ICI (independent commercial importers)

**MJH** · 01-29-2012, 09:05 PM

There are many single EPA certificates that cover ranges of engines, many of which have different displacements that are covered under one single certificate (engine family). If the engines are basically the same then they all can be covered on one single certificate, if a model has been submitted to the EU and certified then it is just a matter of propagating an EPA application with the results submitted on the EU compliance application.

**culcune** · 01-30-2012, 04:10 AM

The tens of thousands of $ might be what the labs charge the manufacturer to test and submit and whatever else they do to get bikes in compliance with where they are getting them in compliance for (added profit thrown in, too). I think that you, MJH, had mentioned something about the US EPA setting up a lab in China to help streamline the process. Whatever the situation, it seems that the process does take a bit longer than what a brand expects it to, and even longer in the cases of bikes that never made it to the US in spite of supposedly just being a certificate and a couple of months away (i.e. CCW's 'da Hooligun' and those few Lifan bikes that will never make it to the US....)

**MJH** · 01-30-2012, 05:42 AM

They do not have to use the EPA test lab, the mandatory fee to the federal government is the application fees and it is only $2,414.00.

The point still is that the 223cc engine has already been configured as conforming in the EU, the tests and data already paid for and getting it a certificate for the US is only matter of transferring that testing data to a format acceptable to the US EPA.

It is not who owns the rights to a certificate, it is more about who has possession of the actual test data for any specific engine and its specific configuration. A manufacturer that has a conforming version and certificate can offer and they do multiple versions of the configuration in different styles. All the DF 250 models share one certificate, the CCW Heist and Misfit share one certificate all the Qingqi 250 share one common certificate.

Most of the Chinese manufactures have labs they test the bikes themselves. Often they get a copy of another manufacturers version with the same engine and copy its conforming configuration.

Many of these low cost scooters for sale all share one certificate. They often only bring over one year and sell that one model year for multiple years, to avoid the $2,414.00 annual application fee.

**MOTO-SCOOT BILL** · 01-30-2012, 03:42 PM

wong on price....30-40 k for usa testing at usa epa certified lab. that is a must and all engine and exhaust also has to be exact same. i will not go into this much further. i deal with this all the time doing r&d for usa importers looking to get new models into the usa market. what happens anywhere else with any thing not related to the bike getting certified for u.s. sales by the epa is of no relavance other than good info to go by. the labs here in the usa must test the exact bike to be able to issue a certificate for that bike's engine and exhaust train before it can be certified for sale into the usa...vin# ect ....mco ...ect. this cost the amount of 30-40 k with customs also included into that final figure. done here....cheerz!