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  1. #11 Re: Puzey Motor Corporation 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    a quick Google of Zhejiang Feishen Vehicle CO., LTD
    http://www.fs-racingart.com/index01.php

    They sell RC cars?
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  2. #12 Re: Puzey Motor Corporation 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    There are a lot of “manufactures” on Alibaba that are actually only wholesalers, they set up relationships with factories and agree to sell their manufactured goods for them. They likely never see or have seen the products.

    That is why you see familiar models being offered under some strange name you never heard of most of these people only answer emails and will send any order to a factory. I doubt they will even tell you the name of the actual factory, because the factory uses them as a sort of customer interface. Good luck getting any spares or warranty that way. I would say that they use groups that have relationships with transport/logistics/import-export agents, that is who is selling the motorcycles.

    There really needs to be something better, a better system. I would like to see it all digital and then factories could enter lists of what they manufacture and then orders would be submitted electronically to the factory.

    I think the system of identifying used by the SAE should be the source of entrance into a better system.
    http://www.sae.org/standardsdev/groundvehicle/vin.htm

    I think that any agency to an OEM should be disclosed and documented. That being what is between the actual manufacturer and the consumer detailed.

    I think all the claims of being a manufacturer is unnerving, those behind it seem to believe that more selling translate to more buying?

    What amazes me is that the all the related federal agencies are not linked, they do not even cross reference databases.
    Last edited by MJH; 02-28-2012 at 02:19 PM.
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  3. #13 Re: Puzey Motor Corporation 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    Basically the SAE (Society of Automobile Engineers) maintains a database of manufacturers, which includes motorcycle manufactures. They assign the WMI (World Manufacturer Identification) and it seems as of 2012 it is no longer free to register. That as a list of manufacturers can be called the primary source of identification of manufacturers of all motorcycles.

    All factories requires an interface to the consumer, that primarily is a shipper or import export company. That is who picks up the order from the factory and navigates it through the gauntlet to the final customer. That is what the Alibaba “manufactures” attempt to do or at least arrange that through negotiations with import export companies.

    A better model would be a interface that uses the real manufacturers names and then takes orders and then has a staff managing those orders.

    The other side of that would be the buyers, they may be individuals or aggregated buyers so the agent could take a single order and price it, then offer delivery based on actual transport traffic, they would primarily be managing a transportation company. Basically filling containers, the key to expediting would be digital data in that pre-approved and linked to all relative agencies, what comes across identified in lists that would include reference links to the proper filings.

    I like the idea of global products, that being models that meet all standards of all nations. Then it would be easier to distribute them. Production would feed a warehouse in china and inventory sold and distributed out of that central storage and regulated by a storage fee to discourage factories from over producing. That warehouse content would propagate a catalog from which orders would be submitted. The factory then sets its production to maintain that stock as par levels.

    Then each factory should be required to maintain a parts warehouse, that warehouse located next to the actual production facility would feed parts to production and also process customer orders. So attached to the catalog of motorcycle should be the sets of digital documents that include parts diagrams and parts lists that are actual inventory in the linked parts warehouse also maintained at set par levels.

    It would be a commodity driven system and with tiered prices based on order sizes.

    The parts orders should all pass though a central server that exists as an interface in each parts warehouse for each individual factory. Then as order are placed they get coded and tagged as sold to end-user, sold for stock or production supply. If sold for stock then the vendor code would reveal a remote location and all orders would be filled through the use of distance metrics that being based on were you are located it would automatically submit the order to closest inventory, if no inventory existed locally or in closer proximity then the order would be filled by the warehouse at the factory. Then vendors could mange inventory and make profit because of relative volume discounts that automatically occur. However those vendors would also be required to be licensed businesses and also entered into the system. By doing that they become de facto satellite warehouses. however the factory warehouse would see total stock as total inventory on hand. It would be the central processor of all orders and all orders would be tracked and tagged, some assigned to individual vehicles and in that compile actual real world metrics on reliability. If an order was placed online it would require check boxes for failed part or spare part. Then compiling those and analyzing those it would flag them and then that information reviewed and acted on. High rates of failure would halt the sale.

    The SAE list is downloadable, it is a data file. It could be managed as a subset of the WMI that only is used to manage global distribution and support of motorcycles.

    I could set up such a system but the initial costs would be very high, the human resources would have very high labor costs, the skill set for such systems costs are primarily 60-75K USD annually per staff member The technology all exists it is a matter of managing the implementation of it.
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  4. #14 Re: Puzey Motor Corporation 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    The EPA is not utilizing the WMI in its annual lists of certified vehicles, in doing that they are disconnected from the NHSTA that requires a disclosure of the agent of process in the USA. The EPA refers to a manufacturer separately from the OEM which is the actual WMI that they do not utilize.

    The EPA must use the WMI and also only propagate the “manufacturer” field with what information is recorded with the NHSTA in association or the agent of the WMI.

    My contention with the EPA is that they allow any certificate for an OEM that is not legally filing with the NHSTA. In that they are party to the registration of illegal vehicles in the USA.

    They are not cooperative or in agreement with that proposition, they claim no authority to mandate the use of the same information. I disagree because federal laws are not agency exclusive.

    They are not responding to inquires presenting vehicles that they certified as EPA legal that have been registered in states that are not legal under NHSTA regulations.

    I'm going to offer them some time before I send the information out to others, those others would be those that agree that federal laws are not agency exclusive they are actually federal laws and in that all inclusive.
    Last edited by MJH; 02-28-2012 at 08:05 PM.
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  5. #15 Re: Puzey Motor Corporation 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    The EPA is not responsible to enforce federal laws that are not specific to EPA regulations, they claim no authority, which is true. However they cannot operate as an agency of the federal government outside of federal laws and in that they cannot offer certificates to vehicle that are not meeting other federal laws. The EPA lists VIN numbers on test vehicles applications that are not a legal VIN under NHSTA regulations. They are or do not contain the leading prefix which is the WMI.

    The use of a VIN is regulated and they are accepting a VIN that is not in an acceptable form.

    The EPA in doing that is allowing vehicles to pass through a federal system that are not meeting other federal regulations. They need to verify the VIN and that the OEM is actually registered with the SAE and have the required filings with the NHSTA. If they are not then they cannot validate the VIN and they accept on the application.
    Last edited by MJH; 02-28-2012 at 08:06 PM.
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  6. #16 Re: Puzey Motor Corporation 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    There are and where quite a few vehicles registered in the US that are not meeting federal regulations.

    All manufacturers have to register with the NHSTA and also they are required to label all vehicles as meeting all FMVSS Federal motor-vehicle safety standards.

    The safety standards have to be meet and or exceeded for all imported vehicles.

    The manufacturers have to acknowledge that and label each vehicle

    49 C.F.R. PART 567—CERTIFICATION
    Title 49 - Transportation

    567.4
    (5) The statement: “This vehicle conforms to all applicable Federal motor vehicle safety standards in effect on the date of manufacture shown above.” The expression “U.S.” or “U.S.A.” may be inserted before the word “Federal”.
    (e) The label for motorcycles shall be affixed to a permanent member of the vehicle as close as is practicable to the intersection of the steering post with the handle bars, in a location such that it is easily readable without moving any part of the vehicle except the steering system.

    This what the label looks like….


    Motorcycles have to have that on them and they have to meet all applicable Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards.
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  7. #17 Re: Puzey Motor Corporation 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    I just go on and on.....

    Zhejiang Feishen Vehicle Co., Ltd. has an Audit report on Alibaba, they manufacturer. They have a pretty diverse product mix from RC cars to razor scooters to dirt bikes and ATV.

    Not sure what the contract Puzey has with them reads but Feishen is offering the 300cc motorcycles for sale.

    http://feishen.en.alibaba.com/produc...DIRT_BIKE.html
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  8. #18 Re: Puzey Motor Corporation 
    Senior C-Moto Guru culcune's Avatar
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    Interesting find...I hope that Feishen are allowed to offer the bikes. That seemed to be part of the problem with them from their old OEMs, Galaxy and Shuopu.
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  9. #19 Re: Puzey Motor Corporation 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    Well if Puzey has established some relationship with AsiaWing, that would be worth investigating. Not that a 38.5hp 500cc will change the industry but I for one think the Spark 500 is interesting. I would like to see it in a refined and respectable build and also supported.

    It does have an EPA certificate….

    So approaching Puzey would be best on that model, that being an inquiry as to if he is utilizing them and what are his experiences thus far.

    The certificate for that bike is dated 2011 and held by SAMCO Corporation, the certificate number is BSACC.498MML.

    Samco Corporation has a location in City of Industry, CA. Samco Corporation has no known officers.Samco Corporation filed as a Articles of Incorporation on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 in the state of California and is currently active. Chi Zheng serves as the registered agent for this organization.

    Filings: Articles of Incorporation (CA - Active)
    State of Record: CA
    State Reference ID: 03249538
    Registered Agent: Chi Zheng
    File Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010
    Active: True
    Filing Type: Articles of Incorporation

    Source: California Secretary of State last refreshed 10/18/2011

    The entry in the EPA database is dodgy as all fuck, thank you EPA
    The field for OEM Engine is blank, as so are the fields for the source country, the vehicle OEM as well left blank and country as well. The models covered under the certificate are the DY500, FOX500, LD500, ROCK500, SPARK500, that is or would be the only way to find the actual certificate, that being if you new the model names. Is that allowed... to have a listing in a database that does not offer any information or is it something only certain people have and under certain circumstances?

    The EPA out sources the management of the data to a private company…..I am looking very close at that! I am not exaggerating it may actually be intentional or unintentional the inconsistency in that data. But it is very suspicious that applications are being accepted and issued that are very very questionable.
    Last edited by MJH; 03-01-2012 at 05:45 AM.
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  10. #20 Re: Puzey Motor Corporation 
    Senior C-Moto Guru culcune's Avatar
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    I haven't been to Roketa's site for awhile, but they were featuring the Spark 500 a couple years back, although I am fairly sure they never actually sold any, or had any to sell. Shugrant Guo (maybe not the exact spelling) used to be one of the higher ups for Asiawing, and I had some (albeit, limited) communications with him. He had invited me to go to the Indianapolis bike show a couple years ago. I couldn't go, but I told Carl to go, which he already had tickets for. I don't think Asiawing ever actually displayed because Carl would have featured them. I remember one of our China based members here on mychinamoto visiting their factory and riding the prototype Spark and showing photos and videos. For a limited time, the Odes 250 enduro was actually an Asiawing bike that was sold in the US. It was, at the time, one of the very first Chinese enduros with an engine larger than 200cc. One of the chinariders.net members had one, and we never heard from him again (no, I don't think the bike was that bad to make him 'gone' but that has happened with members here and chinariders--they buy one of the new, interesting Chinese bikes, and they never really post again...). The engine might have actually been a Suzuki-sourced engine as they used to brag about a Suzuki connection, but the engines might have been Qingqi-sourced as we later found out about the connection.

    http://www.asiawing.com/english/index.asp
    Last edited by culcune; 03-01-2012 at 05:43 AM. Reason: additional link
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