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  1. #11  
    Administrator-tron CrazyCarl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by volksjagger View Post
    if so, they may also be fuel injected like the tu250 is! this would be very exciting news. any word on this?

    and on a side note, what does the "b (asd)" stand for? it must be some proto-type designation or something to that effect? we may never know! hehehhheh!
    Volks,

    This is the 250 engine found in the GZ205 (newer version of the venerable GN250). The engine itself has been around old as the hills but it's a bulletproof engine. Not sure if this is the exact same engine as the QingQi250 without seeing the right side of the motor but it's possible.

    The TU250 get fuel injection to help with emissions standards. I know QingQi is working on FI systems out of necessity but don't think this applies yet to their new 250's which, I don't think, are yet certified for the NA market.

    FI systems are notoriously difficult to dial-in correctly and both Japanese and Euopean manufacturers (as well as Jialing JH600) have spent years and years trying to get it right...and still are.

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  2. #12  
    Administrator-tron CrazyCarl's Avatar
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    Forch,

    I like the looks and concept of it too actually. Simple, comfortable, no nonsense, easy to wrench reliable transportation for one, two - or in some places - 4 people!


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    Quote Originally Posted by forchetto View Post
    By the way, that TU250 looks beatiful to my old-fashioned taste.
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  3. #13  
    Senior C-Moto Guru ZMC888's Avatar
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    I like the first of the two Qingqi's (QM250-2D) being a roadbike fan.

    But a dry weight of 170kg (compared to 138KG for a YBR250) is a tad heavy for a street 250. Typical of a Chinese manufacturer to add bling like average quality twin front disks - adding massively to the unsprung weight, when they could use a single disk of much better quality
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  4. #14  
    C-Moto Regular volksjagger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyCarl View Post
    Volks,

    This is the 250 engine found in the GZ205 (newer version of the venerable GN250). The engine itself has been around old as the hills but it's a bulletproof engine. Not sure if this is the exact same engine as the QingQi250 without seeing the right side of the motor but it's possible.

    The TU250 get fuel injection to help with emissions standards. I know QingQi is working on FI systems out of necessity but don't think this applies yet to their new 250's which, I don't think, are yet certified for the NA market.

    CC
    cc,

    i guessed on the motor being from the tu250 and not the gz250 based on the header pipes coming out of the top end of the two motors.

    the gz250 has a dual header pipe design and the tu250 has a single in the exact position of the qm250gy-b(asd) header pipe.

    i guess the new qingqi 250 picture is just a photoshop illusion!

    not 100% trustworthy? or is it an actual picture you took at qingqi?

    with all these trick photoshop pics going around i am confused!!

    qm250gy-b(asd)


    suzuki tu250


    suzuki gz250


    qlink the importer of my qingqi qm200 already sells 3 "250"s here in america.

    not sure if they are made by qingqi http://www.qlinkmotor.com/product.php?type=cruiser





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  5. #15  
    Administrator-tron CrazyCarl's Avatar
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    Volks,

    The last three are not made my QingQi and two of them use scooter engines.

    All of these recent pictures were sent from the company and not taken by me. As far an QingQi's new 250 engines go, I can't confirm which model it's based on until I see a good picture of the right side. It's either much like the GZ/TU 250 engine or the same case as the 200 with a larger head.

    The orange "liger" 250 picture is a real bike and not a photoshop illusion. It's easy to confuse it with ChinaV's excellent photoshop job of the same bike.

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  6. #16  
    Senior C-Moto Guru bigdamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyCarl View Post
    Volks,



    FI systems are notoriously difficult to dial-in correctly and both Japanese and Euopean manufacturers (as well as Jialing JH600) have spent years and years trying to get it right...and still are.

    CC
    I don't know where you been (Ok yes I do) but the Japaneses have had EFI on there road bikes for years and it has been working just fine.

    Husqvarna and Sherco have had EFI for a couple of years now and no problems well better than no problems they have never had to touch them.

    I rode a 450 Husqvarna with EFI and I got say it was a big difference from a normal carby set up.I would not like to go back to the old set up.

    All motorcycles will have EFI in the not to near future not only because they have to but because they are just plainly alot better.
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  7. #17  
    Administrator-tron CrazyCarl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdamo View Post
    I don't know where you been (Ok yes I do) but the Japaneses have had EFI on there road bikes for years and it has been working just fine.
    There are some FZ6 (didn't get mapping straight until 2007), DL and FJR1300 owners that might disagree with you on that. Many of them were accused of having an "On or Off" feeling which not all people appreciate. Older EFI units had rather slow calculation cycles and this caused some physical feedback issues. When the Japanese bikes first came out with EFI, they were notoriously surgey, stalled and almost impossible for the average guy to tune without working knowledge of mapping software.

    I think it wasn't until the past couple years that the Japanese got things ironed out with their EFI's which have been around for a while (Kawasaki in 1991?). Since 08' Husqvarna is owned by BMW who has plenty of EFI expeience not only with their bikes but cars as well. What a coincidence! The same year as BMW's take-over, 250,450 and 510 Huskie models got FI! Also, from what I understand, BMW went through a teething period with their BMW's as well (650?).

    It took a large influx of knoweldge and resources for Huskies to get well engineered EFI's on their bikes as well as other improvement brought to the company by BMW. One could easily ask if BMW did not invest in Huskie, whether or not they would their current models would have the same level of success and appeal.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdamo View Post
    I rode a 450 Husqvarna with EFI and I got say it was a big difference from a normal carby set up.I would not like to go back to the old set up.
    What did you like about it over a normal carb setup?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdamo View Post
    All motorcycles will have EFI in the not to near future not only because they have to but because they are just plainly alot better.
    EFI units are a lot better until one craps out on you in the field or you have electrical problems. This is great if you have a million dollar chase vehicle, ride on tracks or near modern developed areas. One nice thing about carbs is they're operated by engine vacume and NOT the battery. Same as ABS. I remember one part in "The Long Way Round" where they're stuck in the middle of Mongilia looking through their manual to see what the "ABS" warning light meant and fact is no one withi 2,000 miles couild fix the damned thing.

    Now don't get me wrong, I'm no Luddite and I've got nothing against going digital because if I did I'd still be shooting film. Despite the clear advantges of digital cameras, some extreme environment photographers will still use film cameras because batteries quickly become crap when at or below freezing - there's still something to be said for devices that work on mechanical principles.

    No doubt EFI is a newer more efficient and capable technology but everything has pro's and cons.

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  8. #18  
    Senior C-Moto Guru ZMC888's Avatar
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    I love the idea of having injection on a road bike and I'm thinking of getting a YBR250, as one of the reasons why, because being a modern single with injection it will produce more power more efficiently (15.4 kW) than the trusty old CB 250 engine (234cc twin) (13.5 kW) that the Chinese have gotten so good at copying..

    But surely if I was somewhere in the middle of Xinjiang I would want a trusty old carb, that I can take apart myself, or any mechanic in any dustbowl town.
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  9. #19  
    Senior C-Moto Guru bigdamo's Avatar
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    There are some FZ6 (didn't get mapping straight until 2007), DL and FJR1300 owners that might disagree with you on that. Many of them were accused of having an "On or Off" feeling which not all people appreciate. Older EFI units had rather slow calculation cycles and this caused some physical feedback issues. When the Japanese bikes first came out with EFI, they were notoriously surgey, stalled and almost impossible for the average guy to tune without working knowledge of mapping software.
    My first computer was crap compared to what I got now funny that

    I think it wasn't until the past couple years that the Japanese got things ironed out with their EFI's which have been around for a while (Kawasaki in 1991?). Since 08' Husqvarna is owned by BMW who has plenty of EFI expeience not only with their bikes but cars as well. What a coincidence! The same year as BMW's take-over, 250,450 and 510 Huskie models got FI! Also, from what I understand, BMW went through a teething period with their BMW's as well (650?).
    Aren't those 650 engine made in China?

    BMW had nothing to do with the 08 Husky EFI. Italy's Castiglioni brothers(Cagiva Italia and MV Augusta S.P.A)did the EFI there where pre production models floating around in early 06.Husqvarna models come out here late in the year so the 08 came out after BMW bought Husqvarna.




    It took a large influx of knoweldge and resources for Huskies to get well engineered EFI's on their bikes as well as other improvement brought to the company by BMW. One could easily ask if BMW did not invest in Huskie, whether or not they would their current models would have the same level of success and appeal.
    Yes they would have the same success.Sherco introduced a whole new enduro bike with EFI and they have had no problems with there EFI some problems in other areas of there bikes but not there EFI I think there using the same EFI thats on the Husky's. What do you think BMW came along and developed a whole new bike over night and released it to the market in a month?>



    What did you like about it over a normal carb setup?
    Exceptional throttle response you can snap the throttle on like a 2 stroke and there will be no cough or stall same when you roll off or snap shut the throttle basically it is a very smooth throttle response.Very good fuel economy no wastage like a normal aspirated carb.Husky dropped from a 9 ltr tank to a 7 ltr tank and get very very close to the same distance traveled. My mate has had his Husky now for close to 2 years and never had a problem with the EFI.


    EFI units are a lot better until one craps out on you in the field or you have electrical problems. This is great if you have a million dollar chase vehicle, ride on tracks or near modern developed areas. One nice thing about carbs is they're operated by engine vacume and NOT the battery. Same as ABS. I remember one part in "The Long Way Round" where they're stuck in the middle of Mongilia looking through their manual to see what the "ABS" warning light meant and fact is no one withi 2,000 miles couild fix the damned thing.
    You must get very worried when you have to go somewhere in a car unless your like my mate who has kept his 30 year old car because he says he can fix his car anywhere because it does not have a computer and EFI not like those new modern cars
    There are EFI bikes all over Australia in very very remote places(Australia is a big place) with no back up and support coming home all the time except BMW's yeah some light comes on and its back to the dealer and one very expensive bill to fix.


    Now don't get me wrong, I'm no Luddite and I've got nothing against going digital because if I did I'd still be shooting film. Despite the clear advantges of digital cameras, some extreme environment photographers will still use film cameras because batteries quickly become crap when at or below freezing - there's still something to be said for devices that work on mechanical principles.

    No doubt EFI is a newer more efficient and capable technology but everything has pro's and cons.


    You can change the mapping easily if you want to and yes purchasing the software and key is expensive at the moment but prices will drop when more companies come on board.

    More bike brands are now bring out duel stage mapping(mild and wild) which is operated from a switch on the handle bars which can be changed while ridding so you really don't need to play around with the mapping.

    You and everyone else will not have a choice environmental laws will dictate that EFI will be the way of the future.That is why you are seeing all the Japanese dirt bikes all starting to come out with EFI.Wait 2010 the future of dirt bikes is changing before our eyes look at the new Husaberg.

    The dirt bikes have a kick starter just in case you drown the bike or the battery goes flat.
    Last edited by bigdamo; 11-13-2008 at 04:31 AM.
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  10. #20  
    Administrator-tron CrazyCarl's Avatar
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    BigD,

    I've no doubt FI is coming to more bikes in the "developed" nations but keep in mind for the next 20-30 years that will still be a tiny portion of all bikes in service around the world.

    Like I said before, the benefits of FI are obvious and it makes sense for the change to happen now from many standpoints. Correct me if I'm wrong, but to me it sounds like you're trying to trumpet in the coming of a new dawn of man because EFI is becoming more popular on bikes. And still, I wonder what is the current ratio of carb to FI bikes in rural Australia?

    Despite the obvious benefits and technological flag-waving and even AFTER it becomes a legal necessity, there will still be millions upon millions of carburated bikes all over the world still being sold and used in other places besides North America, Europe and the Commonwealth - moving people and goods around - getting fixed at hole in the wall shops.

    What are you riding now?

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