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  1. #11 Re: Jialing Honda 230 223 Enduro EFI 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    I do not think that Honda itself offers EFI on that engine, not in Japan they do not. The FTR and the CB223 are not EFI, neither is the XR223 the name of the CRF230 in Japan, they all have a 30mm carburetor. All the versions of the engine offered in Japan have carburetors.
    Compliance level, Regulatory compliance, 2006
    CO
    2.0
    HC
    0.3
    NOx
    0.15
    The only PGM-FI version of the 223cc that I have seen offered in any market is the Hero Motorcorp Karizma. The chart has the rated emissions of the 30mm CV carburetor configured models offered in Japan. That meet CIII standards, which are > 150 mL (UDC + EUDC) CO(2.0) HC(0.3) NOx(0.15), however the testing methods may differ?

    The reason that I posted this is that a 223cc engine with a 30mm carburetor meets the CIII standard, at least the Honda models offered in Japan do. They are at the level required of motorcycles that are over 150cc in fact the level is identical to the output of these models. I do not believe that EFI is required for engines over 150cc only that the configurations meet the minimums.
    Last edited by MJH; 09-25-2012 at 03:44 AM.
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  2. #12 Re: Jialing Honda 230 223 Enduro EFI 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    I have no information on what the retail prices would be, it should be priced below the Jinan Qingqi 250 models I would assume or competitively to those.
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  3. #13 Re: Jialing Honda 230 223 Enduro EFI 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    Jialing is the government and the government wrote the regulations? I am just surmising.

    Why would they require EFI, if they are, and not just set a level for the emissions…its pretty useless if everyone takes off the emissions controls isn’t it?

    How many grams in a ton? I believe about 900,000 grams.

    How many motorcycles and how many km each day are ridden, collectively?
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  4. #14 Re: Jialing Honda 230 223 Enduro EFI 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    The 223cc Hondas sell for around (493,000Yen) $6,000.00 USD in Japan, the CRF230 in the USA retail for over $5,000.00.


    The Hero Karizma model sells for $2,200.00 in India, it has the PGM-FI but is not a six speed.


    The 223cc models with a six speed and the PGM-FI priced lower in any market would have a much larger potential market. How much larger is obviously unknown a matter of acceptance of the brand they are offered under. Its a quandary as obviously Honda does not want to undercut its own market share globally, but they are not able to reach the full market potential of that product line at its current production costs, it is limited by those costs.


    The actual retail prices offered in the USA on the CRF230 are greatly reduced in the market.




    They are backlogged to 2009 model years, the 2012 MSRP is $5,399.00, which seems delusional, and killing any real demand. Honda could source those out of Jialing and retail them for $2,999.00 but dealer are not ready to do that? Jialing could offer those at that price and with a line of scooters also priced competitively.


    Its a fickle industry…..I think the 223cc should be made in China and globally distributed, but Honda cannot do that it would hurt them and their domestic production? I really do not think they sell that many of the 223cc they are simply too expensive.


    It is not just the engineering it’s the entire business process that must be exemplary and consistent across all markets. Honda should support and proliferate the PGM-FI and compensated for doing so, doing so would have an overall positive impact on the environment or at least mitigate the negative impact.
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  5. #15 Re: Jialing Honda 230 223 Enduro EFI 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    The UDC and EUDC are emission test cycles, they are reflective of time series data points. They are defined in the EEC Directive 90/C81/01.
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  6. #16 Re: Jialing Honda 230 223 Enduro EFI 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    The only part of the motorcycle that defines who owns it is the tail of the VIN, its last characters in the string. The entire VIN as a complete thread linked to your name and address is the registration. They link between the two but would not be seen together unless accessed. If accessed then who accesses the data then recorded. That is security protocol and if that information was linked to GPS that being the model and geographic terrain, then the time series is complete and the data generated comprehensive.

    Access to your routes and related data point secured and could be only accessed through a court order, as a warrant, through a judicial body.

    For emission purposes the data would have anonymous vehicles and geographic areas. They would be monitoring emission and fuel consumption. They would or could also monitor average speed, then metrics could be used to regulate traffic and also be used in advanced urban planning.

    It could evolve into a system that informed you real-time that road you are on currently has limited speeds and conversely also inform you that the road you are on has an unlimited speed. . But that would be way off since it would require all vehicles be on the grid real time.
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  7. #17 Re: Jialing Honda 230 223 Enduro EFI 
    Senior C-Moto Guru ZMC888's Avatar
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    They are backlogged to 2009 model years, the 2012 MSRP is $5,399.00, which seems delusional, and killing any real demand. Honda could source those out of Jialing and retail them for $2,999.00 but dealer are not ready to do that? Jialing could offer those at that price and with a line of scooters also priced competitively.
    I think you are right, although a little off the mark. Firstly I agree the 2012 MSRP is $5,399.00 is too much for the Honda 223cc, and that they should offer at least a made in China alternative. Honda don't have any agreement that I can see with Jialing in terms of motorcycles. Wu Yang (five rams) and Sundiro are their joint venture operators in China. I believe that they favor dealing with Sundiro because they are actually from Tai**n, but this helps them get around the joint venture rules and gives them a steady partner. I also think that they should make an alternative of all 'workhorse' machines in China with Sundiro from 125cc right through to 500cc twin (CBF500). Yamaha already have a similar business model to my suggestion, but the appearance to the bikes is unclear to the consumer of the origin of the bike. I would hope that Honda could include the name of the Chinese subsidiary in the logo of the Chinese motorcycle, like this:
    Honda by Sundiro.gif
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  8. #18 Re: Jialing Honda 230 223 Enduro EFI 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    Just make these….


    Then conjure riders to aspire to these eventually.
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  9. #19 Re: Jialing Honda 230 223 Enduro EFI 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    Honda Thailand will be manufacturing the new CRF250L, it has a DOHC 4-valve 249cc water cooled engine/six speed and with PGM-FI.

    The model will begin selling in Japan in two weeks.
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  10. #20 Re: Jialing Honda 230 223 Enduro EFI 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    Here are some images of the New CRF250L...






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