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  1. #11 Re: Lifan 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    I keep repeating myself, but it is worth repeating, they really do need to simply refine the products and the process that brings them to the market.




    I really believe that products need to be presented with some consistency, to avoid being bland as in if all the bikes are black that is boring, but if you want to have a trademark color that has to be consistently offered, it has some sort of effect on consumers. It is not like a Jedi mind trick or anything it just establishes an identifying characteristics, that establishes a sense of consistency in the minds of consumers.


    Different but a common trait or color scheme holds them in a line.


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  2. #12 Re: Lifan 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    A line could be formed through color schemes...

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  3. #13 Re: Lifan 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    Dealer do not necessarily have to hold inventory, even though that is the conventional business model. In this day and age, the bikes could be offered through virtual showrooms online and then shipped to a dealer that PID the bikes and offer warranty servicing. I think that dealer should get 15% for that, they should get a flat 15% for the PID.


    A smart system sets the maintenance schedule, it sets it and the fees set up front.


    The distributor should link into the states government, they should use databases that detail the model and owner and submit the vehicle for registration, the plates should come to the owner in the mail.


    What really needs a revision is the process of titling, it really presents an opportunity to reduce the cost of government at that level. That’s about generating a standard title, ideally that title would be internationally accepted and yes would require a universal standard for the globe.


    What must happen is that of each and every person have full knowledge of there relative metrics, that being there consumption and emissions. They need to see it like a report card and their position based on averages across a global fleet.


    Drivers licenses should also be used for or as fuel cards, when fueling the amount of fuel tracked and recorded. The prices the consumption reported with a statement, it ideally should reveal actual taxes incurred as part of the cost of ownership. Then also regionally the spending of the taxes tracked, detailed as to were the capital went, what roads and or bridges were built…metrics. Money in and money out, it is all relative.


    If you set your personal criteria, that being you choose to minimize your transportation costs, then having data on every vehicle that being the total cost of ownership should be recorded as in tracked. Since the cost of ownership is linear in many ways then reducing the distances traveled divert capital, it saves money.


    If you save money on one thing then you have more for others, buying a very expensive vehicle and driving long distance is downward slopping and it is also inflationary, earn more to spend more?




    What if the small trucks were made to look just like the vintage fords of the 60’s?
    What if they were sold online and then shipped to dealers and held to 15% above costs. That is actually a high margin for an automobile….


    The reasons we are not seeing these little trucks are not for any other reason then them meeting federal safety standards. But if they did and if they were offered with set flat fees they would be likely priced unbelievably low.


    This is the error the Chinese are making, they are chasing profit prematurely, they should not be basing prices on market prices they should be basing prices and a markets profit margins. They should keep cost down through process engineering and quality control. They should strive to make the best for the least costs and only set retail prices based on average margins in markets they sell into.


    In the factory cost control can be done by managing shrinkage or eliminating defects….it can also be done by standardizing parts across models.


    Breaking into a market takes time, if done chasing high profit’s the results will come out in the wash. Breaking in can be done only with the best products for the best prices. Offering great warranties and then insuring that nothing brakes within the warranty period.


    In large entities it is important to educate employees, motivate them, make sure they understand the relationships they are part of, reward them for success.


    Lifan is a very large company, they have lots of opportunities. I would love to assemble a team of people who goal was to set up processes that brought new products to the markets faster. I also would like to work with a team that worked on developing better interfaces with government and regulations. Making it simpler and easier, faster and more efficient. Safe affordable and economical, even cleaner.
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  4. #14 Re: Lifan 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    If you make these then the price to the market or what the retail price should be is 30% above the factory price. The factory price is set by the sum of all costs either direct or allocated.
    If the costs that being the total cost at the port of arrival is $800.00 then the retail prices should be $1,040.00.




    The prices are in reality a direct function of the cost to manufacture, they are not a function of bullshit scams!


    The value added or cost to distribute or ready for the customer are also real and should not be seen as an opportunity to rip off the consumer or also screw the manufacturer out of being able to establish a legitimate place in the market.


    It is worth a value based on real measures not on “what you can get for it” or at least it should be.
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  5. #15 Re: Lifan 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    I think I messed that all up….


    The actual prices at retail should be what the margins are based on, but the prices have to be determined and the fees charged flat. Basically at or about $500.00 at each transfer or adding $1,000.00 to the factory wholesale price at the port.


    The $800.00 dollar unit should retail for $1,800.00
    A $1,400.00 unit for $2,400.00.…


    The distributor should add $500.00 and the dealer margin another $500.00


    Their actual cost are or should likely be 50% of the fees charged. Which means they have to offer and move lots of vehicles or they will not cover operating costs. The dealer fee $500 and the distributor fee $500.00, then it is them that have to manage their costs based on that income stream, which means sell more for less.
    Last edited by MJH; 05-24-2012 at 04:36 PM.
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  6. #16 Re: Lifan 
    Senior C-Moto Guru culcune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJH View Post
    I do not think I would buy any of the bikes they offer, the LF250-19 is cool but it would be too much at $3,195.00. But that is just me,….the bikes is simply not worth that much too me.
    .
    Is this available yet? Anywhere?
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  7. #17 Re: Lifan 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    Lifan really could offer a V-250 line and in that increase the potential market accessed.
    The sport version LF250-19 could have counterparts.

    One could look like this.

    Then another version like this…


    That would bring them a better economy of scale, they would or should make allot of them and offer them at a lowered price point, the $3,199.00 after fees and taxes become a $4,000.00 bike.

    Sadly that is simply too much for the majority to embrace, such a large manufacturer should be able to mass produce a complete line off that one engine and in that use allot of shared components.

    I think that they are $500.00 to $750.00 over priced, the MSRP should be well under $3,000.00.
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  8. #18 Re: Lifan 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    That’s a horizontal line, a horizontal offering in one engine class, then efficiency comes within standardization of components Increasing the width of the line allows for cost savings through higher volumes across the entire line. Then vertical lines can form off other shared components other then the engines. Single cylinder versions that share cosmetic parts, then that increases the demand for the body parts offering greater savings overall. They make to many different things, they purchase from too many suppliers, they sell through too many channels.
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  9. #19 Re: Lifan 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    Those little bike do not need a rear disk, all of them should have a front disk that mirror the version used on the Yamaha. The carburetor, all the electrical should mirror the original as well.

    The 17hp V-twin is perfect for a commuter, it offers nice smooth power off the line and into traffic.

    Last edited by MJH; 05-25-2012 at 12:35 AM.
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  10. #20 Re: Lifan 
    Senior C-Moto Guru culcune's Avatar
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    So they are available somewhere, according to the top photo you posted. The second photo is the HiBird bike that was never made--showed alot of promise like their 250cc enduro, but they collapsed with the economy. I agree that Lifan could make variations off their chassis and keep the price within reason.
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