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  1. #11 Re: Preaching to the choir about lane splitting 
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    Quote Originally Posted by fahni View Post
    Well since we now entered the realm of general road behavior in China I have another 2 of my cents:

    I think one of the big problems is that the Chinese switched to cars basically only a decade ago. I remember quite vividly how I was sitting in the car of my parents as a child and how they told me about the right way to behave on the road. They told me about the zipper system (that is what we Germans call interweaving when two lanes in one direction merge into one), that one should give way at intersections even if it was "our" right of way just to enhance traffic flow and I noticed that being able to park a car in a tight spot in two turns is something to be proud of.

    The same is not true in China. People did not grow up seeing their parents drive a car and behave politely, I am not saying that this is the main reason but it is definitely a factor.
    ...and there is a substantial amount of pressure on the majority of Chinese men to buy a car, for pride and face. Even if they don't want to give into this pressure they'll still need to get one before they can marry a Chinese girl.

    From what I've heard about China in my few years here, Fahni, you're absolutely spot on. They've not learned road manners yet, moreover, they're vehicle industry has been expanding so fast. I can't blame them, it's just this way right now and they can't do much about it.

    What can we expect in the future? More of this in greater density?
    What can we do? I know I SHOULD display the manners that we do in the west but when I get cut up, pushed off the road or experience any of the things here all I want to do is display my anger to the guy/girl who did it to let them know how I feel about their actions. The other Chinese people that suffer their dangerous and inconsiderate displays won't do this because they don't want the dangerous car/bike owner to loose face. If this continues, however, it leads to accidents and I don't see face being more important than life, therefore I will continue to display my anger where appropriate... for their benefit.
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  2. #12 Re: Preaching to the choir about lane splitting 
    Danger, Will Robinson! Lao Jia Hou's Avatar
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    While I am definitely not defending the traffic insanity found in Beijing, a recent arrival told me that Beijing traffic is heaven compared to Bangkok. I don't know, as I have never been to Thailand, but he claimed that the worst of Beijing = the best of Bangkok.

    But I did live in Beirut for a few years, and I can say that nothing, and I mean NOTHING, compares to the traffic madness there (Slabo ... you still there?). Beijing drivers generally stop at red lights ... Beirut drivers view red as meaning "speed up and lay on your horn." You have to experience it to believe it.

    Fahni, I concur that long-term car cultures instil a basic traffic sense in kids, and that is missing here. Many locals drive cars using the same traffic principles of riding bicycles (which, btw, are not exactly perfect).
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  3. #13 Re: Preaching to the choir about lane splitting 
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    that explains it all:

    http://beijingcream.com/2012/05/the-...ina-a-diagram/

    Most importantly Step 11
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  4. #14 Re: Preaching to the choir about lane splitting 
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    Quote Originally Posted by andre555 View Post
    that explains it all: http://beijingcream.com/2012/05/the-...ina-a-diagram/
    Most importantly Step 11
    GOLD!!!!!!

    ************************************************** **********

    In the future you can throw the RV crowd in the mix..... makes you wonder, will we ever see huge RV's like in the USA over here...???

    Yangtze Delta to bet big on coming of RVs

    By Hu Min | 2012-5-24 | NEWSPAPER EDITION SHANGHAI DAILY

    Some 400 to 500 recreational vehicle campgrounds will be built in Shanghai and the other 20-plus cities in the Yangtze River Delta Region by the end of 2020, according to a tourism development plan.

    Tourism authorities aim to turn potential consumption in the RV market into real consumer behavior by mapping out the plan, said Wang Jianming, an official with the Shanghai Tourism Administration who helped work out the scheme. The plan has passed experts' review and is expected to be officially launched in the second half of this year.

    About 20 of the campgrounds will be in Shanghai, according to Wang. Most will be built in suburban areas like Songjiang, Qingpu and Jinshan districts as well as near the future Shanghai Disneyland in the Pudong New Area.

    With the emergence of the market, a number of cities in China, such as Beijing and Suzhou, have already constructed campgrounds. But there is no such campground in Shanghai.

    "Shortage of campgrounds and specific routes have hindered its development in Shanghai, and it still takes some time for people to receive the relatively new type of tourism concept," Wang said.

    Shanghai's scarce land resources and long approval procedure are part of the reason for the shortage, he said.

    Most of those who own recreational vehicles in Shanghai are business people, athletes and entertainment stars. Wang estimates the figure to be in the hundreds.

    Five tourism routes specially targeting RV users will be explored, according to the scheme. They will include tours around Hangzhou Bay and Taihu Lake.

    Authorities estimate that an RV tour market valued at more than 10 billion yuan (US$1.6 billion) will gradually form in China over the next decade, including 3 million to 5.5 million consumers in the Yangtze River Delta Region.

    Jing Zonghua takes charge of the Shanghai branch of the CRVC (Centech RVing Club), a Beijing-based recreational vehicle seller and rental service. He said the company's business is not good in Shanghai.

    "The market lacks recognition and attention in the city," Jing said.

    Shanghainese are prudent about purchasing such large vehicles, and the shortage of parking spaces is a problem, he said. Vehicle prices at his firm range between 400,000 yuan and 700,000 yuan. It has six vehicles for rent but sometimes none of them is on the road.

    Most campgrounds with power and water hook-ups for RVs also include facilities such as horse-riding spots and amusement parks. Jing said if developers do business only in recreational vehicle parking, they will fail. He said there is a wide range of facilities and service levels of RV campgrounds, as there is no standard in China.
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  5. #15 Re: Preaching to the choir about lane splitting 
    Senior C-Moto Guru bigdamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou View Post
    While I am definitely not defending the traffic insanity found in Beijing, a recent arrival told me that Beijing traffic is heaven compared to Bangkok. I don't know, as I have never been to Thailand, but he claimed that the worst of Beijing = the best of Bangkok.

    But I did live in Beirut for a few years, and I can say that nothing, and I mean NOTHING, compares to the traffic madness there (Slabo ... you still there?). Beijing drivers generally stop at red lights ... Beirut drivers view red as meaning "speed up and lay on your horn." You have to experience it to believe it.

    Fahni, I concur that long-term car cultures instil a basic traffic sense in kids, and that is missing here. Many locals drive cars using the same traffic principles of riding bicycles (which, btw, are not exactly perfect).
    In my small town red traffic lights are only for poor people to acknowledge "us rich people are not required to stop at red lights" anyways we rich people can take our plates off and break any law we like.I know I've been with them and asked them why don't they stop at red traffic lights it might be me coming through an intersection you hit next time.Answer "No we are very skilled drivers." What the F***.

    Poor people are now following said rich people.China herd like mentality.

    When you sit your computer driving test there are questions relating to courtesy on the roads.Oh wait soon as they pass said test everything they have learned must be forgotten.Probably a multi choice question on that somewhere.
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  6. #16 Re: Preaching to the choir about lane splitting 
    Senior C-Moto Guru bigdamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TB-Racing View Post
    GOLD!!!!!!

    ************************************************** **********

    In the future you can throw the RV crowd in the mix..... makes you wonder, will we ever see huge RV's like in the USA over here...???

    Yangtze Delta to bet big on coming of RVs

    By Hu Min | 2012-5-24 | NEWSPAPER EDITION SHANGHAI DAILY

    Some 400 to 500 recreational vehicle campgrounds will be built in Shanghai and the other 20-plus cities in the Yangtze River Delta Region by the end of 2020, according to a tourism development plan.

    Tourism authorities aim to turn potential consumption in the RV market into real consumer behavior by mapping out the plan, said Wang Jianming, an official with the Shanghai Tourism Administration who helped work out the scheme. The plan has passed experts' review and is expected to be officially launched in the second half of this year.

    About 20 of the campgrounds will be in Shanghai, according to Wang. Most will be built in suburban areas like Songjiang, Qingpu and Jinshan districts as well as near the future Shanghai Disneyland in the Pudong New Area.

    With the emergence of the market, a number of cities in China, such as Beijing and Suzhou, have already constructed campgrounds. But there is no such campground in Shanghai.

    "Shortage of campgrounds and specific routes have hindered its development in Shanghai, and it still takes some time for people to receive the relatively new type of tourism concept," Wang said.

    Shanghai's scarce land resources and long approval procedure are part of the reason for the shortage, he said.

    Most of those who own recreational vehicles in Shanghai are business people, athletes and entertainment stars. Wang estimates the figure to be in the hundreds.

    Five tourism routes specially targeting RV users will be explored, according to the scheme. They will include tours around Hangzhou Bay and Taihu Lake.

    Authorities estimate that an RV tour market valued at more than 10 billion yuan (US$1.6 billion) will gradually form in China over the next decade, including 3 million to 5.5 million consumers in the Yangtze River Delta Region.

    Jing Zonghua takes charge of the Shanghai branch of the CRVC (Centech RVing Club), a Beijing-based recreational vehicle seller and rental service. He said the company's business is not good in Shanghai.

    "The market lacks recognition and attention in the city," Jing said.

    Shanghainese are prudent about purchasing such large vehicles, and the shortage of parking spaces is a problem, he said. Vehicle prices at his firm range between 400,000 yuan and 700,000 yuan. It has six vehicles for rent but sometimes none of them is on the road.

    Most campgrounds with power and water hook-ups for RVs also include facilities such as horse-riding spots and amusement parks. Jing said if developers do business only in recreational vehicle parking, they will fail. He said there is a wide range of facilities and service levels of RV campgrounds, as there is no standard in China.
    Oh great that's all we/they need.Oh well at least there used to not seeing anything around them.Like to see them park a RV.
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  7. #17 Re: Preaching to the choir about lane splitting 
    C-Moto Guru TexasAggie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andre555 View Post
    that explains it all:

    http://beijingcream.com/2012/05/the-...ina-a-diagram/

    Most importantly Step 11


    MAGIC!!!!
    DT
    Keeping the rubber side down.....most of the time.
    Nanjing wheels:BMW F800GS / Texas wheels:BMW R1200GSA & 70' Bultaco El Bandido
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  8. #18 Re: Preaching to the choir about lane splitting 
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    Quote Originally Posted by andre555 View Post
    that explains it all:

    http://beijingcream.com/2012/05/the-...ina-a-diagram/

    Most importantly Step 11
    Someone ought to write a book titled China, magic at work..
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  9. #19 Re: Preaching to the choir about lane splitting 
    C-Moto Guru fahni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdamo View Post
    Like to see them park a RV.
    Me too!
    ------------------------------
    JH-150GY-3
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  10. #20 Re: Preaching to the choir about lane splitting 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou View Post
    While I am definitely not defending the traffic insanity found in Beijing, a recent arrival told me that Beijing traffic is heaven compared to Bangkok. I don't know, as I have never been to Thailand, but he claimed that the worst of Beijing = the best of Bangkok.

    But I did live in Beirut for a few years, and I can say that nothing, and I mean NOTHING, compares to the traffic madness there (Slabo ... you still there?). Beijing drivers generally stop at red lights ... Beirut drivers view red as meaning "speed up and lay on your horn." You have to experience it to believe it.

    Fahni, I concur that long-term car cultures instil a basic traffic sense in kids, and that is missing here. Many locals drive cars using the same traffic principles of riding bicycles (which, btw, are not exactly perfect).
    I'm here, err, i mean there, i mean here in Beirut! Traffic is much better in Beirut now, in a sense that people won't need to speed up to cross red lights because they'd be stuck in traffic in the first place. But really, it's rare that people cross a red light now. I ride everyday, it's not so bad. My only wish is that 90% of scooters be vaporized along with their riders.. they come out of nowehere and expect everyone to give them the right of way, especially when they're going in the wrong direction.

    Beirut isn't a big city, and the average daily commute is probably about 15 km one way. Yet public transport is non-existant here. Anyone has a good estimate for peak oil production date? When will sheeple wake up?
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