Need Help Choosing a Bike

[MJH]

http://www.bmw-roader.com.cn/index.htm

[Steve_Halt]

http://www.bmw-roader.com.cn/index.htm

OK, got it, thanks. They don't have prices there, do they?

[TB-Racing]

OK, got it, thanks. They don't have prices there, do they?

Talk to Kin One (Managing Director and owner BMW Roader China Importer / Distributor) directly, he speaks english very well, need his direct contact details, sent a PM.

[bikerdoc]

Wow. I haven't really considered a scooter. I read your review and, yes, that sounds like a reasonable option. Never rode a maxi-scooter before, will ask someone around for a test ride.
Are there any downsides to the scooter you have? Anything you aren't satisfied with? How does it ride with a passenger?
Thanks!

I was never into scooters when I lived back in NZ and OZ, but once I hit Asia many moons ago, Thailand, Indonesia, Vietnam, Cambodia etc, I found how versatile the average scoot could be. Nautrally all the scoots I had the opportunity to ride in these Asian countries were all Jap ones, so they offered solid rides. When I got to China 10 years ago there wasn't a lof of choice of anything. Small capacity scooters are n ot my thing, but the maxis are. I had a CFMoto CF250T-ViP Fashion for a couple of years and while it wasn't a true maxi scoot in many respects, it was a huge scoot. The Honda Helix which is what the CF250T-ViP is based off, was a great ride. A little long - I didn't like 13" wheels,as I like sitting a little higher than the car roof line in front. I still had a great experience with that scoot but it topped out 110km/h (the Jetmax can do 140km/h) I sold it to a German guy in SH for not too much less than what I'd paid for it. Naturally I'd added lots to it, and it was well looked after. After that experience I was happy to go with another CFMoto ride. One of the interesting things was that in the first month after I bought it, there was one thing I found a major problem with and that was the amount of heat from under the seat. I mean it was baking under there. I put chocolate (one of my few simple vices - the others are too complicated for inclusion in this thread) under there and it would be soft as. Around that time, I got a call from the shop I'd ordered the Jetmax through, and asked to return the bike (date and time chosen by me) and a technical person came from the CFMoto company and swaped out a range of items. The ECU, shocks, petrol cap, EFI unit and a few other items I can't recall (though I mention them in my review under the scooter section of MCM and other fourms too ( www.maxi-scoots.com ). The heat under the seat was also remedied. Now that was better than anything I've heard or read about most other motorcycle manufacturers in China. I mean I didn't contact them, they actually caught up with me. I'd have been none the wiser. That to me speaks volumes about CFMoto.

The only downsides to the Jetmax are that it can't do offroad, but that is not a limitation isolated to this scoot. I wish it had a park brake at times, like many bigger capacity maxi scoots do. The finish while good is not to the same standard as a Jap or European maxi scoot, but then I'm not paying those prices. You might want to check out the online Australian motorcycle mag ( www.scootersales.com.au ) that did a basic comparison between three scoots a Piaggio's X7 300 and Kymco's Downtown 300i with ABS. The result was that for the money the Jetmax held it's own. Overall I like it. Sure it aint the same as my Burgman Executive 650cc or the Piaggio's X7 300 and Kymco's Downtown 300i with ABS as tested by scootersales Australia. I do like the Jetmax for all the reasons stated previously. Admittedly it's a scoot, but I have no hangups about that. Hell Asia and Europe are full of them, they're a big part of the motorcycling market.

As to the Jetmax.

I like that I can blend in, ride into many places and not feel too inconspicuous. It is quiet too and fuel efficient. I also get to keep clean, and again the fact that there;s huge underseat storage with a light is just sensible.

I've changed the mirrors, to the ones found on the CF650NK, changed the headlights to Xenon HID's, added lots of little things e.g. a seat squab to lift me up an inch or two, a cigarette plug adaptor so I can add more electronic gadgets... I run my smartphone complete with GPS (GamrinXT) placed on mounting bracket attached to the top of the dash. Even in the rain it stays dry, something not easy to acheive on a motorcycle. I've got a water bottle bracket holder attached down by where the left inner fairing which allows me to reach down with one hand while riding and have a drink without stopping or doing the same at a set of lights. Try that on motorcycle... not so easy, I know. The inbuilt radio and USB MP3 player and associated speakers could be better, but then it isn't a Goldwing. The MP3 USB plug also is powered so one can run any USB powered device from it like I do a smartphone, but it is a power source tied into the ignition being in the ON position. This is why I hard-wired a power source directly to a live wire, so I have a source available not just when the ignintion is switched ON.

As for riding pillion, the Jetmax rides and goes like the pillion isn't there. Handles two up riding with ease. Pulls from a standing start like no ones moving, and I don't try that hard. I'm mindful of the wear and tear the centrifugal clutch does through so don't abuse it.

Honestly the Jetmax does really well, and is not a typical Chinese scoot, like the one scooterchick found in Canada and posted her findings and problems with a SAGA here on MCM. I managed to even convince a sceptical mate to buy one, on my say so and nagging, and he's a tough sell. He luvs it. He's had his fair share of issues, but then he rides his bikes like they're enduros, which none of them are.

I've changed the rear shocks for a couple of nock off adjustable Chinese made jobbies, with adjustable preload and dampening etc. I've also gone for bigger international branded tyres, and had welded a couple of tabs to the centre stand to compensate for the oversized tyres. I was getting 10000km to the standard rear tyres which are ok, but I like nice sticky tyres. I did find that the standard rear tyre from the factory would get a little squared off in profile close to the end of life of the tyre around 10000 km. The standard front tyres were getting double the life or standard rear, at 20000 km.

I'm not sure, you could find a test ride since they're not a scoot found on dealers showroom floors, and even when they are, dealers are even hard pressed at times, for a prospective purchaser to sit on a motorcycle, until some money is down. You can find a few around, in places like SH. Otherwise a CFMoto authorised dealer will only order one in on a pre-order basis. Not the best marketing tool. But the there are actual CFMoto only dealerships around.

BTW, have you considered a Regal Raptor 350? They make a couple of 350's which are really 320cc, ones a road bike and the other is a bobba style. Not too bad looking... priced around the high twenties from memory. Or you could do a HD 883cc sportster for under a CNY 100K. A genuine, new 650GS will set you back an easy CNY 100K if not more. They did have a special on the 650 single cylinder rotax engined G650GS (engine made by Loncin in China) but that specials likely ended.

http://www.cfmotoclub.com/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=87002
Photos show the Jetmax then lots of the newer Jetlux which looks more photogenic but I think having seen it in the flesh is way less functional (smaller wheels, thinner front profile and less weather protection), as well as photos of both the 650NK and 650TR. Got to say though that the model in red looks hot, and I'm not referring to 2 wheels! ;)

[bikerdoc]

Aside from the CFMoto 650NK which was mentioned in the OP, the 650TR might make another nice alternative. But I also know thru my contacts that CFMoto will be releasing a dual purpose enduro style bike based on the 650cc platform, possibly by the end of the year. Stay tuned. I will get around to finally posting up about CFMoto under the dealers section of MCM which I realise is well overdue (2010). What I can say about CFMoto is they are attempting to be a game changer, more about quality than quantity and very much focused on the export market... in a simlar way as to how Honda was for the Japanese motorcycle manufacturers back in the 1960's with the CB450 twin then the CB750 four.

[Steve_Halt]

CFMoto dealer here in Nanjing happens to be a close friend of mine. So close he gave a Chinese name to my baby :)
What you wrote sounds very-very tempting, especially given the fact that CFMoto guy will take my Asiawing as a trade-in (I talked to him about that).
I looked at that Regal Raptor you mentioned. It's weird how in Nanjing Regal Raptor don't have their own dealership network and are sold at the FYM-Yamaha shop.
Those 350ccs are a bit north of 20K indeed and look OK. But I read someone's review on Regal Raptor 250 here and that being compared to Yamaha YBR 250. Not many positive things about that engine. And the suspension looks iffy too.
CFMoto's concept of quality over quantity sounds quite attractive and promising. I thought about 650TR, but that looks too large for my liking. I'm doing city riding and too large panniers aren't really necessary. I got 2 strap-over MotoFizz bags and so far they've been enough. Besides, I'd imagine it'd be a lot for fairing replacement should the bike ever get dropped. 650NK looks like a more attractive option.
At the same time that bike's got quite mixed reviews and riders' feedback. My (foreign) friend here has been riding it for a bit under half a year and has been impressed so far. He'd recommend it over any other Chinamade bke. Another friend (Chinese) has been riding it since last summer (apparently his bike was among the first ones brought to Nanjing) and complained of brake lines, flaking paint, insufficient stopping power, engine vibration and the ride being generally uncomfortable.
As for a Harley - they seem to be quite overpriced in China. Besides, in terms of spares availability any Chinabike wins hands down. Besides, should I have 100K in cash, would I really put all of it on a daily commute bike???
That's the reason I started this thread - so many options, so many opinions.

[euphonius]

Dear Steve,

Interesting discussion. Once again, you've raised an argument for one reason and I'm going to respond with something completely different.

I thought about 650TR, but that looks too large for my liking. I'm doing city riding and too large panniers aren't really necessary. I got 2 strap-over MotoFizz bags and so far they've been enough. Besides, I'd imagine it'd be a lot for fairing replacement should the bike ever get dropped. 650NK looks like a more attractive option.
At the same time that bike's got quite mixed reviews and riders' feedback. My (foreign) friend here has been riding it for a bit under half a year and has been impressed so far. He'd recommend it over any other Chinamade bke. Another friend (Chinese) has been riding it since last summer (apparently his bike was among the first ones brought to Nanjing) and complained of brake lines, flaking paint, insufficient stopping power, engine vibration and the ride being generally uncomfortable.

Dismissing the 650TR because its panniers "aren't really necessary" suggests that panniers are there just for carrying stuff. Believe me, they can perform another super important function that is absent on the other bikes you are considering -- leg safety in a getoff. When I came off in Kunming two years ago in quite adverse conditions (my fault) at some speed, I wound up with a fractured clavicle but my legs were unblemished, which likely would not have been the case without my left pannier, a Tourfella hardcase. Sure, most motorcyclists ride without such protection, but in China, where the risks are so much greater, hard panniers offer an amazing additional measure of safety. And the cost of repairing a pannier will pale next to the cost and long inconvenience of a leg injury. I speak from experience. In your case, the benefits are even greater, given that you'll be doing most of your riding in the obstacle course/pinball machine known as urban China.

I don't recall reading anything specific about the quality of the 650TR panniers, but I do remember others saying the overall build, quality and componentry of the TR are substantially better than the NK. For those reasons, I'd suggest that you consider reversing your preference to put the TR ahead of the NK.

Having spent several hours last evening with two YBR250 riders at Shanghai (No-)Bike Night, I'd also suggest you give that fine bike a second and third look. Though it's relatively expensive in its class, it's proven itself again and again to be an amazingly reliable and versatile bike, most recently going the distance with Fred and pillion Celine on their 12k km ride around China without a single mechanical issue (okay, one puncture). Others in MCM are reporting similar experiences. It's a solid choice for urban commuting (if your really can't find a better alternative, like a bicycle...), but for a welterweight guy like yourself it can be a real sherpa on a long adventure ride.

Keep us posted!

[Steve_Halt]

True, I haven't considered panniers safety-wise. I planned to make-do with the regular sliders/crashbar/rollcage stuff.
I haven't seen that 650 TR in Nanjing as of yet, but I read a very favorable review of it here on MCM.
Actually, I rarely filter in the traffic and try not to split lanes, so the added width won't be much of an issue. Still it's a bulky-looking bike that won't allow one use all the advantages of being on 2 wheels instead of 4.
As for Yamaha YBR 250, I saw it in flesh and rode one, courtesy of my friend. It feels nice, handles nice and looks OK. I know, why improve what is already perfect, but it's been on the market for, like, forever without even a facelift. Some say it's classic. Some say it's outright last century. Anyways, what I wanted to know is: how does that YBR 250 compare to the new Suzuki GW 250? The price is the same. Suzuki seems to be a lot more comfy.
I read a comparison/review on moto8 and it's neither a comparison nor a review. It's a senseless rant about which one revs higher and pics up revs faster. Any opinion?
Thanks.
Steve

[Zorge]

How much money for quarter of a liter "Ybrahim"?

BTW, "bikerdoc" mentioned the Regal Raptor 350. If he was referring to the one that looks like a Honda Vardero 125, it is an interesting proposal. I saw this bike a few years ago at the bike show. Then he looked very bad and completely unrefined, and the following year saw the positive steps. However, it must be admitted that the exhaust pipes were ugly, sprayed with silver glitter paint. Most importantly, instead of carburetors, fuel injection was installed. I recently saw a clip on YouTube, with more recent vintage Regal Raptor - it's hard not to notice the progress they made.



However, I would go back to that cheap option - underbone. I would say that this is an excellent solution for everyday transportation and punching through the traffic jams. It will not take long for you to start using underbone's compact dimensions and to begin to filter. Plus, this type of bike is easy to push and maneuver in a parking lot. Their engines (at least most of them, horizontal ones) are a masterpiece - simple, yet, real Lego blocks: you can choose volume, manual or semi-automatic gearbox, different shifting patterns, with or without electro-starter...

There are several basic forms of these bikes, and you will easily choose one that you like.

Underbones.jpg

[HarbinSteve]

However, I would go back to that cheap option - underbone. I would say that this is an excellent solution for everyday transportation and punching through the traffic jams

Depending on what "commuting" is for you, and underbone is a good option. If you are going to be going over 50 or 60 kph for extended periods, its not so suitable, but for most city commuting they work well. I wouldn't have touched one before I came to China, but here I think it is my best option. It is fuel efficient, light, fairly comfortable, and cheap. They handle well in traffic and because they are so light, can stop very quickly. They are pretty narrow, so it is easy to go around cars in traffic. The rear suspension is very easy to adjust, so 2 up is no problem. Its light enough to pick up if you need to put it on the sidewalk, and the ground clearance is enough to ride off a sidewalk, although I wouldn't try that 2 up.

The best part is, they blend in very well and are pretty cheap.*So the chances of theft are reduced quite a bit. Even if it does get stolen, its not the huge loss that a really nice bike would be. I park mine everywhere I go, and don't worry to much. A 2500-4000rmb underbone is a lot less of a loss than a nice BMW or something getting stolen.

I keep mine outside year round, it the paint has held up fine so far, but I wouldn't worry about that, because the nicer it looks the more chance it gets stolen.

Anyhow, I'm not trying to advertise for underbones or anything, but it is a practical, simple, cheap option to think about for city commuting.