Riding legal decisions-insights wanted

**kikikillercat** · 07-09-2012, 02:02 AM

good, now that you have your license you can drive anywhere in China....can i ask why you live in Harbin? I hear it gets crazy cold there in the winter....good for riding in the summer??

**HarbinSteve** · 07-09-2012, 02:20 AM

you don't really have to move out of Harbin, you just have to show paperwork that you live outside of Harbin. Get someone to agree to rent you a place, at least get the paperwork saying that you've rented someplace out Harbin, then go to the local police station there and get a proof of residence.

I'm sure if I would have kept at it I could have got it registered in my name, but who knows how long that would have taken/how many hoops I would have had to jump through. I just took the way that made the most sense to me, and had a friend register the bike. That also makes it easy when I leave China too, as I will just give it to him, and its already in his name.

good, now that you have your license you can drive anywhere in China....can i ask why you live in Harbin? I hear it gets crazy cold there in the winter....good for riding in the summer??

I live in Harbin because I really like it here. Its a little like going back in time compared to most of the other big cities in China. The people in 东北 are super nice, and the food is awesome. I have 3 months of vacation in winter and 2 in the summer where I can go anywhere else I want, so my riding isn't really restricted by the weather. I can ship my bike to Yunnan for <1000RMB and then the weather problem is solved. The summer weather is great for riding, except for the occasional downpour.

**Lao Jia Hou** · 02-02-2013, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by euphonius

As discussed ad nauseum in this forum, do NOT do option 3. Kiss of death.

Slightly off-topic, slightly on-topic.

A few of us had lunch with the owner of a bike dealership in Beijing. He told us the story of an unlicensed rider who rode an illegal bike (fake plates, no insurance) to his shop to look around. Happened some time last Fall. The unlicensed rider parked his illegal bike in the dealer's "parking lot" (dealer debates it is his parking lot).

Along comes newly-licensed Suzy Q in her massive, brand new Porsche Cayenne.

Sweet little Suzy bumps the illegal bike while she is trying to park, knocking it over. Suzy panics, hits the gas, and completely runs over top of the (now crushed) sport bike. The unlicensed rider comes out of the shop, swearing and screaming, noticing his crotch-rocket is destroyed.

Scared Suzy stays in the SUV and calls the police saying there is a crazy biker threatening her. The police come in moments.

Naturally, police take bike away ... also take unlicensed rider away (probably for one of those free 15 day "hotel" stays). Suzy's SUV needs to be platform towed as there was quite a bit of damage to the under carriage.

Dealer thinks "wow, that was exciting" and forgets about it shortly thereafter.

Zoom ahead to end of January. Suzy's insurance company contacts dealer and says he has to pay for damage to Suzy's SUV.

Apparently, the police said that the illegal rider has to pay 100% (totally at fault, given the bike should not be on the road and he didn't have a DL). Problem is, the illegal rider has no money. Zero, zilch, nada. Suzy's insurance policy covered the ... wait for it ... 40,000 rmb damage to her Cayenne. Insurance company wants to get its money back and is saying dealer is at least partially responsible since it happened on his property.

Anyways, moral of the story (and I think this has been mentioned before somewhere on this site), if you've got an illegal bike, no DL, and someone runs over your prized possession, you are not only losing your bike, and suffering the costs of repairing your own bike (if you get it back), but you're also liable for the damage to the other vehicle (regardless of the fact that the other driver was at fault). However, you do get 15 days free room & board. As for the dealer, well, I've no idea how that one will play out. He's confident his insurance company will fix it.

Not sure what would happen back home.

**moilami** · 02-02-2013, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

Slightly off-topic, slightly on-topic.

plates, no insurance) to his shop to look around. Happened some time last Fall. The unlicensed rider parked his illegal bike in the dealer's "parking lot" (dealer debates it is his parking lot).

Along comes newly-licensed Suzy Q in her massive, brand new Porsche Cayenne.

Sweet little Suzy bumps the illegal bike while she is trying to park, knocking it over. Suzy panics, hits the gas, and completely runs over top of the (now crushed) sport bike. The unlicensed rider comes out of the shop, swearing and screaming, noticing his crotch-rocket is destroyed.

Scared Suzy stays in the SUV and calls the police saying there is a crazy biker threatening her. The police come in moments.

Naturally, police take bike away ... also take unlicensed rider away (probably for one of those free 15 day "hotel" stays). Suzy's SUV needs to be platform towed as there was quite a bit of damage to the under carriage.

Would had made a priceless Youtube video

**SabineHartmann** · 02-02-2013, 01:39 PM

Has anybody checked if Suzie Q has won her licence in a lottery or got it as a birthday gift from big daddy?

**ShuBen** · 02-03-2013, 06:42 AM

.... no matter, whether Suzy wins her DL in the lucky draw as long as she has it.
LHJ is right -> no DL, no legal bike = all costs on you
BUT at least you might get 15days free lodging :-)

we can consider it the chinese way ..... buy a phone number ending 888 or burn some sticks at a temple of your choise .... then it will not happen to you :-)

**euphonius** · 02-03-2013, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by ShuBen

.... no matter, whether Suzy wins her DL in the lucky draw as long as she has it.
LHJ is right -> no DL, no legal bike = all costs on you
BUT at least you might get 15days free lodging :-)

we can consider it the chinese way ..... buy a phone number ending 888 or burn some sticks at a temple of your choise .... then it will not happen to you :-)

That should be "no DL, no legal bike, no insurance = all costs on you."

License, registration and proof of insurance -- that's the standard in any other country. Why not also in China? It's about f*cking time, and I hope they enforce the hell out of it.

cheers

**Lain** · 02-03-2013, 07:49 AM

The advice given here is honest, even if I am a slight hypocrite in that I do not have a license yet and have been driving a 50cc scooter for the past 6 months, but ONLY inside my small town where the police know me, and even once tapped some gas from a police bike to help when I ran out on my way to the gas station. The bike is plated, and insured though. I obey all traffic lights and would NEVER consider going anywhere other than to the local markets to buy food, or the occasional post office trips me and my wife do.

As a foreigner in China (even with a license, plates, insurance) you will almost always be considered at fault, simply based on the fact your not Chinese. To take any road trips, travel outside the area where you reside is paramount to suicide.

As stated....That should be "no DL, no legal bike, no insurance = all costs on you." , plus I might add deportation or revocation of your Visa.

**ShuBen** · 02-03-2013, 08:10 AM

with the statement:
"As a foreigner in China (even with a license, plates, insurance) you will almost always be considered at fault, simply based on the fact your not Chinese."

I disagree

In different cities I had (thanks god) 3 minor accidents with my cars and last autumn with my motorcycle. The accidents had never been caused by me. All time the police officers behaved correctly. Their decisions have been OK. The Chinese people who caused the accidents had to cover the repair costs by their insurances.

**bikerdoc** · 02-03-2013, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Lain

As a foreigner in China (even with a license, plates, insurance) you will almost always be considered at fault, simply based on the fact your not Chinese. To take any road trips, travel outside the area where you reside is paramount to suicide. [/COLOR]

I beg to differ with that generalisation...

In my experience, the couple of small offs I have suffered through no fault of my own have been handled by the traffic PSB as I'd expect and have been found in my favour. In one instance the PSB called in the big guns (the PSB chief who handled foreigners for the district (from the nearest major city), on the first day of the October public holidays several years ago, accompanied with his translator who also had to be called in (none of which would have been easy as both were on vacation)... and even the offending drivers insurance assessor attended promptly and was sympathetic and agreeable to allowing me to put my bike on the back of a pickup truck (my neighbours) and trailer it back home allowing me to arrange repairs with my dealer where I'd purchased that bike. Had I been a local they would not have handled the case that day, until after the holidays, and the insurance assessor would have only allowed the bike to be repaired near where the accident had occurred. It was because I was a foreigner that the opposite happened.

Even on my return to the PSB station a month or so later armed with fapiaos etc for the reimbursement. When I claimed what I was owed by the driver (who was at fault) I was asked by the attending PSB officer if I wanted anything else. I only asked for a couple of hundred quai extra to cover my neighbours expenses (expressway tolls and petrol) which I felt was fair, though I didn't have the fapiaos as my neighbour had dealt with that side of things and never asked for anything. The driver protested saying that it wasn't fair. The PSB officer, said to the driver that he should shut his mouth and think himself lucky that I was not asking for more (hospital or medical fees etc), and that he should be counting himself lucky considering I was a foreigner etc. The officer even made some comment that if I'd been a Chinese that the driver would likely be having to pay more. Them's were his words, not mine.

Lain, you have been here in China a while now if I remember reading a post from you earlier (2.5 years?), though you are new to MCM. Some of us have been here for a lot longer than you, and likely dealt with many more situations than you might give many of us credit for. I myself have been here for more than a decade now, but I'm still a spring chicken compared with some who have been here for two decades and a few even more. I simply advise you that the comment that you made has not been my experience thus far.