Steve's CFMoto 650 NK（春风 650 NK）

[Steve_Halt]

Besides idling at very high RPM, the new ECU brought another problem: delayed throttle response. Both from roll-on or from standstill, when opening the throttle there is a delay in engine response.
It is pretty hard to describe, but it feels like: open throttle - engine bogs down - and - go!
As everybody understands, that results in pretty much uncontrollable acceleration, since you never know how long it's going to take for that "go" to kick in.
What worsens the problem is that I don't really know much about electrics / electronics. That means I cannot sort it out myself. My option is to either continue buying those "electrical black boxes" and hoping that a certain combination of those will finally work or to ditch this bike and go for something else. Ditching a bike would be a regret since I have it plated, registered in my name, and I have insurance on it.
I have a gut feeling that this problem may be related to TPS, but, as ZMC888 pointed out, it is not sold separately, which leaves me with no choice but to buy the whole throttle assembly (800-something yuan), which is not what I want to do.
Now what I got on my hands are 2 ECUs:
1. Came with the bike, throws errors, engine has a flat spot (bogging down) anywhere between 4000 and 6000 RPM. But has proper idle and immediate throttle response.
2. The one I bought from the CFMoto Tmall store. This one doesn't throw errors, has smooth response through the RPM range, but makes the engine idle at crazy high RPM and has a significant throttle response delay.
I am very disappointed.

[ZMC888]

Just eliminate everything else before you go spending money.

If it were my bike I'd:
-Send the 'new' ECU back to CFMOTO and ask for a different one, tell them it's faulty. If the old one works badly then the new one should fix the errors. My suspicion is after 12 years in China that they've either knowingly (likely thinking they're doing the right thing for their millionaire overlords as the consumer should not complain in China) or unknowingly (possible) sold you a duff ECU. Could you try one from another bike? If not then....
-Check plugs
-Check fuel quality
-Check air filter
-try injector cleaner
-try a different TPS from another bike
-find a really unusually good bike mechanic that has their own shop and good attitude (good tools and plenty of customers with big bikes should be the guide)

There's really no point in thinking about selling at this stage, as having a bike that's running poorly is hardly going to sell well. If you decide to sell the bike, for sake of your bank balance try to get these problems sorted first.

[Wald0]

I have a feeling it is the TPS, but not that it is broken.. let me as one question? Did you reset TPS after changing different ECU? as this should be done after you change ECU or TPS. if you did take your bike to dealer they should have done it for you! My problem is that my closest machine to reset TPS is about 1600km away.

Then getting back to symptoms.. I have that same "wall" what bike hits! it needs more gas to overcome that barrier, for me it feels like ignition timing is not changing as it should.

[bikerdoc]

I suspect the symptoms MIGHT be related to the throttle bodies needing to be synchronised and/or the new/replacement EMU/ECM needing to be calibrated using the plug in diagnostic module. My 650TR idles round 1000-1200 RPM when engine is up to ideal operating temp, 3 bars on the temp LCD and no significant concern with operation of the cooling fan AFAIK.

YMMV

General directions to reset TPS/ISC on many EFI MC's...

1. Put the side stand up and engine stop switch is at “RUN”.
2. Turn the key to the "OFF" position.
3. Fully open the throttle/wide open throttle (WOT).
4. Turn the key to the "ON" position.
5. Release the throttle after waiting for eight seconds, or until red EFI light goes off.
6. Turn the key to the "OFF" position.
7. Turn the key to the "ON" position.
8. TPS and ISC have been reset successfully.

If the procedure fails, repeat the steps from 1 to 8.

[998S]

Did you reset TPS after changing different ECU?

Spot on from Waldo, do a TPS reset and problem should be solved.
Out of sync. injection creeps slowly, not from one day to the other.

[ZMC888]

998 and Wald0, should he do the same thing as reset ECU?
Or is there a different sequence to reset the TPS that only the factory might be aware of such as adjusting TPS voltage?
Or is there some plug in system?
Can the bike's ECU eventually adapt without doing a TPS reset?
So there must be a different ECU tune map in the new ECU?

Many questions............

[998S]

Many questions............

I know of some bikes where you can reset the TPS by itself, but I guess most bikes need software from the dealer since manufacturers realized that generates more money...

It is mostly a check / adjustment on the mechanical parts (so that everything is set where it should), then a push on a button within the software to re-calibrate the TPS position against those mechanical settings.

A bike will NOT adapt if you do not perform a reset.
What you do by re-setting (or re-calibrating) is to give the ECU the (mechanical) reference point for the fuel map. If not re-set, it will use the wrong part of the curve or matrix forever.
Hence the higher idle and the stumble.

If a bike has 'self learning' software, it might compensate by changing the fuel mixture.
But even if that does, it is only compensating for a basis error, it is slow and retard, so you never use the optimum mixture, and it has its limits to compensate, so it might not cover the "out of wack" setting of the TPS completely.

E.

PS. I can hardly imagine that a dealer should not have the software, even in CN.
I thought the Jialing stalling problems were long time past.

[Steve_Halt]

ZMC888, Wald0, bikerdoc, 998S - guys thanks a lot for the input, much appreciated. In fact I learned a lot.
So to sum up: there is nothing wrong with the new ECU, but my TPS needs resetting so as to work with it properly.
Well, I have only one question here:

1. How do I reset TPS? (I know, ZMC888 asked already, but still...)

Is it some ignition - throttle - kill switch sequence that I can perform myself, or do I need specific equipment for it?

[Steve_Halt]

I know of some bikes where you can reset the TPS by itself, but I guess most bikes need software from the dealer since manufacturers realized that generates more money...

It is mostly a check / adjustment on the mechanical parts (so that everything is set where it should), then a push on a button within the software to re-calibrate the TPS position against those mechanical settings.

A bike will NOT adapt if you do not perform a reset.
What you do by re-setting (or re-calibrating) is to give the ECU the (mechanical) reference point for the fuel map. If not re-set, it will use the wrong part of the curve or matrix forever.
Hence the higher idle and the stumble.

If a bike has 'self learning' software, it might compensate by changing the fuel mixture.
But even if that does, it is only compensating for a basis error, it is slow and retard, so you never use the optimum mixture, and it has its limits to compensate, so it might not cover the "out of wack" setting of the TPS completely.

E.

PS. I can hardly imagine that a dealer should not have the software, even in CN.
I thought the Jialing stalling problems were long time past.

Thank you!
So tomorrow I will ride to the CFMoto shop I got the bike from and ask them for a TPS reset (节气门传感器重新调整). Good if they have the software to do it. If not - I am pretty much stuck.

[ZMC888]

PS. I can hardly imagine that a dealer should not have the software, even in CN.

Thanks Eric!
I'm absolutely sure that my local dealerships would have utterly no clue about how to reset a TPS or any software or computer to be able to do it.

My local dealership mechanic would...........
Scratch head, pick nose, start bike rev engine and say 'no problem'. Chinese mechanic translation 'no problem' = 'I don't have the parts, tools, experience or knowledge to fix this, and I'm trying to save face'.