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  1. #1 Driving in Shanghai: Traffic lights, big avenues and one-way streets? 
    C-Moto Regular Topmanda's Avatar
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    Oy mates,


    I have few questions regarding the way you drive with your motorbike in downtown Shanghai.
    I use to have a Jiangsu plate so didn't care much about traffic lights, nor big avenues like Yan'an xi road for instance (where motorbike are not allowed), but as I'm a legal driver now (bought a 650NK, 1 month ago, will put a big review in 1 week), with an inner-ring license plate ( 沪A) I have to admit that, being more easy to traced, I have to re-think my driving way toward the chinese rules, still...

    Here are my questions for the inner-ring license plate ( 沪A) owners:

    - Are you respecting every traffic light, means you stop at every red light, whatever there's car or not? (there's no flash at crossroad, only cameras, but they don't fine so unless a cop stop you, it's the only chance you'll be fine 200 and lose 3 points: correct me if I'm wrong)
    - Are you respecting single-way street, means you don't drive on the bycicle lane, or emergency lane which allow you to take the opposite direction?
    - Are you respecting the rules toward big avenues (yan'an xi road, beijing xi road, huaihaizhong road,...) where big bikes are not allowed.

    For the last question I was driving on beijing xi road, with my 650, where I'm not supposed to (unless it's later than 7pm) and I saw a cop so I drove to him and ask him if it was OK : he told me that as long as I don't stay on it for a long time, he wouldn't fine me, if it's just to a take a turn at the next crossroad, they generally tolerate it.

    I admit that passing years in China corrected...hhhmm...corrupted my driving way, so please no sermon.

    And you, what's your driving attitude toward the chinese traffic rules?

    Cheers,


    T.
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  2. #2 Re: Driving in Shanghai: Traffic lights, big avenues and one-way streets? 
    foreign China moto dude bikerdoc's Avatar
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    I lived and rode in SH more than seven years ago so I won't comment. I wanted to say though in terms of my attitude towards the road rules, I generally tend to abide by them to a point. When riding in towns, or cities especially during the day light hours such as coming to a stop and abiding by traffic signs and signals. Where I may decide to violate the rules, I try to be courteous about it. Example: Traffic lights - come to a complete stop. Check all directions, is the way clear, check, double check, triple check then if clear - proceed. That said, this is usually out of town, in outskirts and such like.

    I always make sure to avoid the triggering sensors for all red light and speed cameras. Irrespective of my intentions, law-abiding or otherwise. Generally motorcycles don't receive the fines other more substantial vehicles do for traffic violations (red light and speeding fines), but I don't want to be another motorcycle statistic that might add to the increasing weight of law breakers that proves the tipping point leading to enforcement or worse.

    I do use my vehicle (bikes or car) horn no matter what local law might be in-force. Once the whole of the population is completely educated and have a smidgeon of road awareness and sense, I might not need to use the horn. Until then - liberal use of the horn it is. I don't have to contend with one way road systems so can't comment other than the odd time where a road is closed or partially so, due to reconstruction etc, I may use a cycle lane or some other pathway, but always do so with respect to other users. I do use the horn in these circumstances too. People actually expect it, and depend on it as a type of de-facto awareness device. Much like the "I don't use lights on my _________ but you have lights on, on your _________ so you can see me" type attitude.

    Another thing is I want to lead by some form of example, and moreover do not want to be seen as some form of self entitled laowairen thinking I can do whatever I damn well please... "pot calling the kettle black" mindset I think is what I am getting at here.

    my kauis worth...
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  3. #3 Re: Driving in Shanghai: Traffic lights, big avenues and one-way streets? 
    C-Moto Regular Topmanda's Avatar
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    Thanks for you input man. What about big avenues? Are you taking them despite the sign "motorbike forbidden"?
    Have you ever be fined? Lost points?
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  4. #4 Re: Driving in Shanghai: Traffic lights, big avenues and one-way streets? 
    Shanghai'ed Shanghaifingers's Avatar
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    I will be honest... With my 户A's I still often "ride like I stole it". Its not really about riding fast of dangerous I just ride like the local motorcyclist. However that being said I do avoid the camera sensors on the road when i can and I am always awrare that "Big Brother is watching" I try not to do anything that will attract to much attention. When I am on the 国道, i do the same thing, I ride the centerline when approaching cameras to avoid triggering them and slow down to the speed limit when I cannot avoid the sensor. Buddies on there Duc's have recieved speeding tickets while even in the countryside because of sensor cameras. They got the ticket in the mail. They have even been stopped by the police at a provincial border tollbooths and made to pay on the spot

    However lacking the need to always scan for cops and worring about getting caught with a grey market bike with fake plates and registration is a health balance, in my opinion!

    SF
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  5. #5 Re: Driving in Shanghai: Traffic lights, big avenues and one-way streets? 
    C-Moto Regular Topmanda's Avatar
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    Hi SF,


    So you mean that you're avoiding the camera sensors by driving on the line in the center of the road right? By doing that it doesn't trigger the sensor? That's interesting.
    What about the cameras at traffic lights is there any sensor cameras that fine at traffic light (if running a red light)?

    At the moment I only putted the license plate on the back, as the front one is unaesthetic, plus police seems to be satisfied with the rear one only. What’s your opinion? Could it be a problem?

    Cheers,


    T.
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  6. #6 Re: Driving in Shanghai: Traffic lights, big avenues and one-way streets? 
    SabineHartmann SabineHartmann's Avatar
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    are you crazy guys?
    what are you discussing? I am not the most law abbiding women on earth, but that tops it.
    I stop at every red light, drive on the correct lane, more or less obey the speed limits (+/- 10%)
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  7. #7 Re: Driving in Shanghai: Traffic lights, big avenues and one-way streets? 
    foreign China moto dude bikerdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topmanda View Post
    Hi SF,
    So you mean that you're avoiding the camera sensors by driving on the line in the center of the road right? By doing that it doesn't trigger the sensor? That's interesting.
    What about the cameras at traffic lights is there any sensor cameras that fine at traffic light (if running a red light)?
    Most of the red light and speed cameras operate and are activated by an conduction (sensing) loop (rectangular shapes most often) embedded in the road surface. Usually these loops are usually confined to individual lanes but not always so. For example at multi-lane intersections where red light cameras are positioned there are often two sets of induction or sensing loops just prior to and then immediately after the white line where vehicles are required to stop at the intersection. Have a look at an intersection where red light cameras are mounted. If one looks carefully enough, one will likely see rectangular patterns on either side of the white painted lines of each lane where cuts has been made to the road surface and the conduction or sensing wire has been embedded. Like I say there are usually two sets of these loops on either side of the white line.

    Sometimes there won't be any conduction/sensing loop in the right turn lane if the lane is not controlled by a traffic light/signal "arrow." This is the lane sometimes used by commercial drivers e,g, taxi drivers who become familiar with intersection layouts, to travel through lanes at intersections that have a red light in play at the time. They'd likely be observed using the right turn indicator/turn signal giving casual observers the impression that the drivers intent is to turn right, when actually they then proceed straight thru.

    Speed cameras have a similar configuration. Again in multi-lane situations there are often separate conduction/sensing loops (rectangular patterns) for each lane. This means that there are areas often close to lane markings that separate one lane from another where the conduction/sensing loop is not embedded. Once one gets familiar with the configurations and what to look for it is often simple to identify where the conduction and sensing loops are embedded for any given application and situation. That being said though, occasionally conduction/sensing loops extend beyond the boundaries of just one lane. Also some speed camera conduction/sensing loops have multiple loops within or across multiple lanes including any "shoulder" lane e.g. bicycle lane, or sometimes the conduction/sensing loops are offset between multi-direction lanes, dependant on design. Some will trigger even when a vehicle is travelling in the opposite direction e.g. when driven on the wrong side of the roadway. On occasion infrared beams are used, though not as prevalent as the aforementioned conduction loops.


    Quote Originally Posted by Topmanda View Post
    At the moment I only putted the license plate on the back, as the front one is unaesthetic, plus police seems to be satisfied with the rear one only. What’s your opinion? Could it be a problem?
    Cheers,
    T.
    Technically illegal, so if stopped by traffic police, you could either be asked where it is and let off with a warning, fined for not displaying it, not fined and not asked at all. It just depends on the situation at any given time. At the time of re-inspection though the plate must be attached otherwise the vehicle will fail the inspection.
    Last edited by bikerdoc; 09-19-2012 at 09:22 AM.
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  8. #8 Re: Driving in Shanghai: Traffic lights, big avenues and one-way streets? 
    Danger, Will Robinson! Lao Jia Hou's Avatar
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    I've heard that one state in the USA recently passed a law saying that motorcycles can proceed through a red light (it safe to do so) after waiting 2 minutes, because motorcycles do not trigger the road sensors.

    Is there some minimum amount of metal mass necessary to interrupt the field embedded in the road?

    In my experience, I've noticed that the bike's mass is sufficient to trigger the speed cameras, but I had assumed that these overhead cameras were triggered by a little radar sensor in, or near, the camera? Am I mistaken? Are these speed cameras triggered by road sensors?

    There are many speed cameras around Beijing that supposedly take your photo, regardless of speed. One can see the flash activated as you pass by ... although I've kinda theorized that they must not be actually taking a picture, just activating the flash, as a deterrent. Given the number of vehicles passing by, there would be a massive number of photos to look through if these cameras are activated by any, and all, vehicles (at any speed). I've purposefully slowed down to well below the speed limit to see if one of these cameras would flash and, yup, it still does.
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  9. #9 Re: Driving in Shanghai: Traffic lights, big avenues and one-way streets? 
    Senior C-Moto Guru euphonius's Avatar
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    Many cameras in Chinese cities, and increasingly in rural areas and roadways, are there not to monitor speed or other violations, but simply to track traffic patterns and vehicles for case building. These video and still images can and are used by law enforcement to reconstruct criminal behaviors after the fact.

    There are CSI-style TV shows being broadcast on Chinese television now that show police cracking criminal cases by electronically pursuing bad guys through town as they flee by watching them enter and exit the field of vision of those very cameras.

    Yes, Big Brother lives and Orwell is grinning in his grave, but I, for one, do see social value in this. I hope the police are judicious in their use of this capacity, and hope they can clear the streets of lawless riders who put everyone else at risk when they flee law enforcement.

    cheers!
    Last edited by euphonius; 06-23-2013 at 01:56 AM.
    jkp
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  10. #10 Re: Driving in Shanghai: Traffic lights, big avenues and one-way streets? 
    C-Moto Regular Topmanda's Avatar
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    Funny, I saw this so called CSI guys when my CB VTEC has been stolen, parked the bike in front of those bao’an at the main entrance of Imago a medium shopping centre, just in front of cameras. So I had the privilege to enter the record room of the district once I arrived at the police HQ to report the crime: about 30 screens, switching images every 5 sec. Consequently, I saw the faces of those thiefs (3 scooters on the side, 6 people, working tools on my disk block) for about 20 min on the side road with pedestrians walking by at 8pm on a Thursday.

    Long story short, the “intellectuals” told me that they would track those rats using their cameras system all around town in order to see where they would stop, problem is: they changed districts which required another CSI room, with other “experts” not mentioning the authorizations papers that go with it.

    I guess you know the end already...
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