Loncin 重庆隆鑫机车有限公司

[Zorge]

I think a reintroduced Jupiter with their 300cc DOHC would be possible,

Hardly - IZh motorcycle factory was liquidated years ago. Today in Izhevsk exist C-moto assembly plant. Their production is sold in Russia under brand name Patron.

Jupiter is related to Jawa?

No. Jupiter’s twin cylinder is based on DKW RT 350 design.

However, there was a period of cooperation between them. Jawa was developing 500 cc boxer engine, and several of these engine took IZh. and tested them on their bikes. Sadly, neither Jawa nor IZh. did not start serial production of that boxer engine.

Surprisingly Jawa is still doing two strokes!

Do you know what is even more interesting in this story of Jawa’s twostrokers?

This 350 cc before-the-great-flood engine in the late 80’s - early 90’s got a replacement - a modern 250 cc single cylinder liquid-cooled twostroker. The engine was installed into a motorcycle with the same design as the twostrokers that are sold today, plus a fairing and single shock on the swingarm. I do not know what happened, why they decided to keep the old engine, while the new engine lapse into oblivion.

Jawa_250.jpg

Was very sad to see how few different models Jawa have novadays. A legendary brand appears to be dying.

Earlier there were even fewer.

None can beat the ugly utilitarian looks of that bike, and nothing else than two stroke is good for that refined simplicity

"Ugly utilitarian look" you say?

MZ_ETZ_125.jpg

IZH had a prototype of that bike, rumored to have the Yamaha XT550 engine, a modern version that evidently never made it into production.

It was not a rumor. Indeed the Russians bought a license from Yamaha for their thumper, but, as I understand it, the problem was that at that time the Soviet Union was no proper engine oil (???), then the Russians tried to "improve" engine design. And then, there were some other factors why that project was not carried to the end.

1990_Izhevskie_fantazii.jpg

The other thing is that within the eastern block and soviet republics, they shared designs, much like the Chinese do? Could say what is yours is mine comrade?

They probably traded designs and manufacturing knowledge as part of edicts handed to them.

You know, Eastern bloc has not been Borg.

Each manufacturer has worked for himself with rare exceptions.

....and their bikes were sold as CZ.

ČZ - to be more precise. Note the Č, not C letter. It stands for Česka Zbrojovka, better known as firearms factory. CZ is for Serbia’s firearms/automotive factory Crvena Zastava.

ČZ’s bikes are, in my understanding, mostly off-roaders.



Where is mod, to transfer all this off-topic elsewhere!?

[euphonius]

Damn, I wish this thread, however fascinating, had a title even remotely related to what's in it. But I guess it's a bit late for that now.

[Zorge]

We just need mod who will move this off into a new topic.

Seriously, where is forum's sweeper?

[MJH]

It is not entirely unrelated, the thread is titled Loncin and they are selling to Minsk, who is in eastern Europe. Since other once major brands in the region are also selling other Chinese manufactured motorcycles and or using them for parts. Even Vietnam is not unrelated since that at one time it was a major market for Minsk but higher import tariffs has since changes that, now Locnin seems to be there instead.


Logic would have been for a joint venture with Loncin and Minsk to assemble Minsk branded models in Vietnam? The designs of the bikes should be done in Belarus? Some would have a Minsk two stroke engine? Why call them RebelUSA, the bike have nothing at all to do with the USA.


It seems that when they try they do not do a good job retaining the identity of the brands, Minsk does better with its classics.


My point is that selling CBK units into Eastern Europe and also Vietnam could be done best with designs that are reminiscent of previous Minsk offering that were very popular in both markets.

[MJH]

Then also we see a 660cc OEM engine from Minarelli, then also Loncin has production of a BMW 650 single that if Loncin could sell could change allot. All BMW has to do is say release the Kraken? They may never but then again that is probably going to happen through a solely independent Husqvarana first.
It does not hurt Minarelli to sell the 660cc does it? What holds Mineralli back is its prices.

[MJH]

If the Eastern European want to tap into low cost manufacturing, they really should pony up to a really good European design house first.

[MJH]

I believe that Loncin may be content being a super large OEM. What they need is better interfaces to the markets, from the designs in and distribution out.

[MJH]

Then Loncin as an engine manufacturer can actually realize an economy of scale, with better engines, it can then manufacture those better engines that can be shared with many different assembly plant in many different regions. If they don’t somebody else will? There is Zongshen and Lifan and others that can and will if they get a chance.
In fact Minsk buys its 200cc I believe from ZS?

They could empower other brands, but the current approach is not that appealing to many.


I am just trying to image how the industry can progress beyond its current stagnation, its not that it is only shrinking in production it not progressing in it business process and philosophies.

[MJH]

I just noticed that Patron IMZ is selling the Yingang YG250...not for cheap either $4,000.00 USD.

[Zorge]

If the Eastern European want to tap into low cost manufacturing, they really should pony up to a really good European design house first.

In fact, they are. Their bikes were designed by Italian designer who was responsible for the design of the Mk.1 Morbidelli V8.

In fact Minsk buys its 200cc I believe from ZS?

Yea, from Zong. For their classic line, that is.

I just noticed that Patron IMZ...

Patron's abbreviation is UMZ - Ural's (in sense - of Ural, Uralic; damn my English!) Motocycle Company. IMZ is for factory in Irbit who produces "Ural" boxers.