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  1. #21 Re: Hi... Newbie checking in 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    The X2 is does not meet emissions in China, so it is not able to get registration in china for road use. The company has been working on an EFI version to no avail.


    Even as an Off-Road bike the X2 sells in china for around 17,000RMB and the main consumers are paying under 7,000RMB for transportation models, it is not difficult to see what those are they are reflected in the majority of offerings from the Chinese Motorcycle Industry, 50-150cc scooters, CUBs and versions of a CG/CB Honda.


    That X2 is approved for sale in the USA, but nobody to date has any to sell, the bike has been on the list of EPA approved models since 2011. The emissions are not as strict here in the USA as in the EU, the model approved for sale here has a carburetor, which as it was submitted to the EPA would not pass the E3 criteria set by the EU commission. Considering that the EPA here has been finding that many of the applications submitted to them by Chinese manufacturers and their affiliates have falsified test results, the data may not be accurate?


    Before you buy a Chinese model it is best to make sure it can be registered for street use. I do not know the process in Scotland but assume the dealer handles that and it is their ass if they register bikes for road use that are not legit. You said he only has one, hmmm thatís interesting so he is not too invested in them is he.


    I am just suspicious that the bike is not actually legitimate to sell in the EU for street use, but at this point if you can get one and register it then it does not matter, in the worst case scenario they simply stop selling them and those that did sell them deal with the fallout. You could get a replacement CDI if you need one from china in that case or any other bit you might need down the road.


    Just seems odd to me that the bike meets E3 and not approved in china, why is that?
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  2. #22 Re: Hi... Newbie checking in 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    The CRF250L is comparable to the Shineray X2, both have a DOHC 4 valve water cooled 249cc single.
    The Honda has programmable fuel injection ,the Shineray has a carburetor. I believe that the Honda is 100% legitimate and suspect that the Shineray is not, the price difference reflects that. I believe that Shineray may be cheating the regulations and also keeping cost down in that, so the direct comparison falls short since the direct comparison requires the X2 to have EFI that is as reliable as the PGM-FI for the two to be compared legitimately.


    Then what would the price differences be? If they were actually comparable. We all can see it coming that being when they actually are comparable, so will be the prices.


    I like to assume that if a manufacturer submits an application to regulatorsí that it is legitimate, But unfortunately that has been proven time and time again not to be the case, they actually lie and when they get caught they simply say the claims are not substantiated or that the action of the regulatorsí is unprecedented and biased. They leave the market and their affiliates in the lurch and scoff at the fines that are noncollectable in China.


    If you buy one the resale is not good on them, because the above matters. However the bikes are comparable, the Honda would likely be trouble free but the Shineray would also likely give only minor annoyances, but if you actually plan to ride it hard it would or could fare less well?
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  3. #23 Re: Hi... Newbie checking in 
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    MJH thanks for your detailed reply. I've seen a lot of the 125-150cc bikes on various manufacturer's websites - like you say mainly scooters, Cub and CG/CB replicas. I presume that if these are the staple fayre of Chinese commuters then they must be fairly reliable.

    In the UK, the Baotian BT49QT(?) scooter was the best selling scooter last year to the surprise of many, and small dealers are springing up all over the place. The main problem with Chinese bikes in the UK is in how they were sold until fairly recently... many were bought on Ebay and were delivered to the buyer's home in a crate with basic assembly instructions, or were sold through dealers who were amateurs and who didn't really know bikes. Things have moved on and it is rare that Chinese bikes are sold in crates on Ebay now as there's dedicated importers for most of the different brands. It's still far from perfect as plenty of the so called 'dealers' are garges selling cars that have decided to diversify into Chinese bikes, yet they have absolutely no background in bike sales and maintenance and assemble them quickly which leads to problems for the bike's owner. Things will change in time and these amateurs will be weeded out and dropped by the manufacturers as Chinese bikes become more mainstream. Taiwanese manufacturer SYM started selling scooters and bikes with a bit of a sketchy dealer network but now the quality of their bikes are being recognised and bigger dealers are taking on SYM franchises. My local Suzuki dealership in Edinburgh is excellent, and in the last year or two have started selling SYM bikes and also brands like Generic (Chinese I think). I would have no hesitation buying from them (unlike some other incompetent main Edinburgh dealers who deal solely in Jap bikes). Chinese bikes sold by proper bike dealers, assembled by bike mechanics who know what they're doing, front to rear nut and bolt checks - threadlock etc, will see these bikes providing much more reliable service to their owners than has perhaps been the case up until now.

    I can't tell you too much about how these bikes meet Euro 3 emmissions other than as far as I am aware, new vehicles are independently tested to check they conform. Once certified, the bikes can be sold freely throughout Europe. There's load of different Chinese bikes now for sale in the UK/Europe. Regardless, I'm quite happy that I can buy the bike legitimately - the dealers near me provide them registered, taxed, and on-the-road all set to go. My local guy mainly stock AJP bikes from Portugal and also does HMC (Zongshen), Pulse (Qingqi I think), Lexmoto and Shineray. He only stocks one or two of each make/model due to him operating out of a small industrial unit so is limited in terms of space. Once one is sold, he can get another one in in a couple of days from the importer, build it up and put it on display,

    UK publication MotorCycleMonthly magazine did a review last month of three 125 commuters - a Zontes and a Moto-Roma (Chinese), and the SYM Wolf (Taiwan). I can't remember what manufacturers the Zontes or Moto-Roma were from as these names are for the European market (though the magazinbe did say). The Zontes and the Moto-Roma came in at £1500 and the SYM at £2300. The Zontes won the group test through its build quality which the magazine reckoned was better than a Yamaha YBR125 and the fact that it cost £1000 less.

    It's these types of reviews in the motorcycle press that are becoming more common and more positive that are turning me on to the idea of buying Chinese. I understand that Chinese bikes are becoming much more popular throughout Europe also, although as usual we in Britain will be amongst the last to adopt them as biking in the UK is so snobby... unlike most countries, bikes are 95% recreation here and 5% work-horses and as such, a lot of people can't see past their Fireblades, ZX10R's, GS1200's etc. Anything else will always be considered inferior. I've never followed the herd though, so am tempted to take a punt on that Shineray.
    2007 - '02 reg Hornet 600
    2010 - '03 reg Fazer 600
    2012 - fed up with Jap manufacturers rip-off prices , running costs, and shopping around for a fun 125.
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  4. #24 Re: Hi... Newbie checking in 
    Senior C-Moto Guru humanbeing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by japanzzz View Post
    I can't remember what manufacturers the Zontes ...
    Zontes = From this http://www.tayomotor.com/ company
    MOTO ROMA SK125 -I'm thinking the SK stands for "Sukida" which = this http://www.sukidacycle.com/ (SUKIDA/ HAOJIAN/ BENTENG/ KAIER... are from the SAME company.)
    The Wolf sells in UK are built by SYM's factory in Xiamen (Amoy), Fujian, PRC.
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  5. #25 Re: Hi... Newbie checking in 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by humanbeing View Post
    Zontes = From this http://www.tayomotor.com/ company
    MOTO ROMA SK125 -I'm thinking the SK stands for "Sukida" which = this http://www.sukidacycle.com/ (SUKIDA/ HAOJIAN/ BENTENG/ KAIER... are from the SAME company.)
    The Wolf sells in UK are built by SYM's factory in Xiamen (Amoy), Fujian, PRC.
    SK is for SENKE
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  6. #26 Re: Hi... Newbie checking in 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    Not a very good one though...

    Brands mean nothing its the WMI's they need to count.

    If you have a spare lifetime you could read the EU directives, UGH
    http://ec.europa.eu/governance/impac...10_1152_en.pdf
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  7. #27 Re: Hi... Newbie checking in 
    Senior C-Moto Guru Zorge's Avatar
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    japanzzz, run away... run for your life...

    There is no turning back, when C-moto world suck you in.
    Ask me nothing - I DO NOT speak english. Really...
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  8. #28 Re: Hi... Newbie checking in 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    You can still buy Chinese manufactured motorcycles on EBAY, in fact more now then ever before.
    You can get the CFMOTO NK650 on Ebay in the UK, they sell them under the brand WK.

    Here is an ebay store offering them.
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WK-650i-EFI-/221150737338?

    4,045 GBP thats 6,500 USD,
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  9. #29 Re: Hi... Newbie checking in 
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    I'll be amazed if anyone can shift one of these WKs in Britain at £4195 on the road. Any buyer would be taking a shot in the dark and instantly lose at least £2000 in depreciation as soon as it's rolled out the showroom. It's one thing taking a punt on a £1500 Chinese 125 but sales of the WKs will be non-existant. It'll be a brave dealer that's shelled out for one to put into stock - I reckon the importer's distributed them on a Sale or Return basis.
    2007 - '02 reg Hornet 600
    2010 - '03 reg Fazer 600
    2012 - fed up with Jap manufacturers rip-off prices , running costs, and shopping around for a fun 125.
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  10. #30 Re: Hi... Newbie checking in 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    WK in the UK is like Keller in Argentina, Xinyaun and Chungfeng?

    The WK site has the 650 for 4,199.00 inc.VAT?
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