Sticky rope repairer's how safe ???

[prince666]

I have been told by one member on here that i don't know what i am talking about ?? WELL READ BELOW and then tell me again its you life so live long and look after your tyres

TYRE REPAIRS - PLUG/PATCH

There are two types of puncture repairs for motorcycle tyres Outside-In plugs (temporary) and permanent Inside-Out plugs (permanent).

The most common on the road tyre fix is the outside-in repair. These repair kits typically include a specialized piece of sticky rope or a mini-mushroom type plug. This outside-in type of repair does not require removing the tire from the wheel and is applied from the outside of the tyre. This type of repair is considered temporary, allowing the rider to limp the bike back home or to a motorcycle shop where a proper inside-out repair can be done or by having a new tyre installed.

The other method is the inside-out repair. This method is not easy to do on the side of the road. This preferred repair method requires removing the tyre from the wheel, drilling out the hole to a more uniform size and installing the plug/patch from the inside of the tyre. please see picture

Mushroom Plug Patch.jpg


This is the only 'approved' method for proper and permanent repairs of tyre punctures.

Motorcycle tyre Slime products are an alternate method for temporary tyre repairs
This approach is also a temporary fix
Used long term these tyre slime products can cause corrosion to alloy wheels
Please warn the motorcycle shop if you have slime inside your tyre before they begin work
Tyre slime makes a mess when you remove the tyre

All motorcycle tyre repairs affect the maximum speed rating of the motorcycle tyre
Repaired motorcycle tyres are not approved for speeds over 70mph
If you are running an inner tube type tyre these plug repairs do not work
A new or patched/repaired inner tube is required.

THIS IS TO BE USED AS A GUIDE TO MOTORCYCLE TYRES SOME PEOPLE WILL NOT AGREE WITH ALL OF THE ABOVE & PEOPLE WILL DO THINGS DIFFERENT BUT ALL IN ALL IT'S YOUR SAFETY THAT IS PARAMOUNT SO PLEASE USE YOUR COMMON SENSE WHEN REPAIRING, CHANGING & BUYING A NEW MOTORCYCLE TYRES AND HOW CAN YOU BE SURE NO OTHER DAMAGE TO THE INTERNALS OF THE TYRE WITH OUT TAKING OF THE RIM ???

[euphonius]

Thanks for starting this thread. I'm interested in this question of safety after plug repair. But given that both my bikes used tubed tires, I'm also curious how common tubeless tires are and if they are superior, why are tubed tires still in use?

cheers
euphonius

[prince666]

Thanks for starting this thread. I'm interested in this question of safety after plug repair. But given that both my bikes used tubed tires, I'm also curious how common tubeless tires are and if they are superior, why are tubed tires still in use?

cheers
euphonius

You are welcome but remember I don't know what I am talking about
Tubeless tyre are much safer then tube tyres because with tubeless tyres
When you do get a nail in the tyre it's go down slowly unlike a tube tyre which goes down very fast and don't give you much time to slow down and stop
People still make tube tyres as these are cheaper to make in most cases tube wheels should be ok to fit tubeless tyres but ask the tyre shop before fitting

[prince666]

sorry euphonius

i was out and about when i done the last post by way of my iphone so now i can go into more depth why tubeless tyres are better

I would say about 99% of all car tyres made now are tubeless with bike tyres it is a lot less .

Tubeless tyres have phased out the tube-type tyre because it is better than the latter in terms of fuel economy, reliability, safety and performance. Here is how a tubeless tyre is superior to a tube-type tyre




As the name suggests tube-type tyres consist of a tube which is placed between the tyre and the wheel rim. The tube inside the tyre is filled with air and inflated to allow tyres to support a vehicle’s weight and maintain the shape of a tyre.



Tube-type tyres were used for many years by all types of vehicles with pneumatic tyres before the tubeless tyre was created. However, various drawbacks of a tube inside a tyre caused the tubeless tyre to become preferred over the tube-type tyre.



The tubeless tyre scores over the tube-type tyre because it weighs less and hence less unsprung weight. Handling characteristics are also better with tubeless tyres. When the tube-type tyre looses its inflation, it has a tendency to come off the rim causing instability.



tubeless tyres.jpg


so i hope this imfore you find good information

[juice]

Most of that is pretty much true, BUT
1. tubed tires are going to run much hotter then tubeless tires.
2. The bit about tire repair is arguable. In fact a proper mushroom tire repair from the outside will pretty much return the tire to just under it's speed rating and in most cases safely last the lifetime of the tire.

When repairing a tubeless tire there are three things to be concerned with.
1. The actual punctured hole.
2. The inner seal.
3. Tire degradation.

A roped plug patch will stop the leak and get you home, but is susceptible to popping out.
A mushroom plug addresses all three concerns because not only does it patch the hole and stop the leak, but while doing so it also provides a resealing of the inside surface of the tire. So now that the tire is sealed you still have to worry about the tire degrading and breaking down. Water is the main enemy here. In order to prevent tire degradation the entry point of the puncture also has to be sealed. The tire is made up of different compounds, steel belts, etc., and when introduced to salt, dirt, air, and water, rust and other nasty's start to brake the tire down. The plug portion of the mushroom also seals the entrance of the puncture and prevents tire degradation.

[birdmove]

Thanks all. This is good reading about tires and repairs to them. I have never patched a tubeless tire, but have patched and replaced tube type tires over the years. We do have an emergency tubless repair kit stored in our SYM HD200 scooter, and we also have a Kymco People 150.

[prince666]

we have talk about 2 types of tyre repairs..

1. outside in...

2. inside out ...

with number one most people use the sticky rope type repairs kit which is fine BUT only to limp home and not to be used as a permanent repair


we know that a tubeless tyres in the event of getting a puncture lose air very slowly but what happen to the tyres when you run on it when it losses air ??

The tyre heats up and the tyres start to degrade with Small like balls and fine dust of rubber breaking away from the side wall of the tyre this start to happen with only 5lb loss of air you hope you will notice this as you ride most people do BUT some don't ??? so the longer you ride with the loss of air from the tyre the more degrading you get from inside the tyre to a point the whole tyre will degrade and full apart this is very rare but more likely to happen if riding at high speeds because the heat builds up faster and it takes you longer to stop but also remember when all this is happening the braking efficiency and handling of the bike has somewhat decreased so when breaking from high speed with a puncture in your tyre slow down with caution


now all this talk we now need to ask "HOW SAFE IS A STICKY ROPE REPAIR"

To get you home yes it is fine but at low speeds ???

would i leave the sticky rope in the tyre with out taking the tyre of the rim to inspected the tyre for other damage NEVER ???

more full details please read below




puncture_ill_sm.jpg


Img_1638_nail.jpg


Any repair attempted without removing the tire from the wheel is improper. Without inspecting the inside of the tire for hidden damage comes the risk of returning a weakened tire to service. Punctures in the tread area that looked repairable have revealed upon further investigation that the object that punctured the tire had been long enough to cut the tire's sidewall from the inside. Without dismounting the tire, the hidden damage would have been missed.

Simply plugging a tyre from the outside without removing the tire from the wheel is improper. (If a tyre is punctured while off-roading far away from civilization and a spare tire isn't available, a plug may serve as a temporary low speed solution that must be replaced with a proper repair as soon as possible upon returning to the road.)

Additionally, any repair that doesn't completely fill the path the object took through the tire is incomplete. While a patch on the inside of the tyre reseals the innerliner, it does not fill the path of the puncture. This will allow moisture to reach the steel belts and/or the casing cords causing them to rust or deteriorate.

There are many different rubber compounds used in a tyre. The tyre's innerliner uses a special rubber compound that has the ability to better retain air. Once punctured, the innerliner must be cleaned, buffed, cemented, patched and coated to assure its ability to retain air has been restored. Since this can only be done from inside the tire, it's another reason that a plug-only repair is improper.

Continuing to drive on a tyre with a slow leak may allow moisture to seep around the object and into the tyre. This will reduce the probability that the tyre can be repaired properly because the moisture will ultimately reach the internal steel and fabric cords used to reinforce the tire and possibly cause rust and loss of strength. To assure reestablishing a watertight seal the injury must be cleaned with a specially designed cutting drill that removes rust and sizes the injury properly to accept the rubber stem of the patch. Cemented in place, the stem will vulcanize with the tire to help prevent moisture from reaching the tyre's reinforcing cords from the outside.

While indoor laboratory tests have shown that freshly punctured and properly repaired speed rated tires can still achieve high speeds, it is not recommended that repaired street tyres, or punctured DOT-legal competition tyres and racing slicks be used for track events.

How do you know which procedures a tyre dealer uses? Ask them! But be aware that if they say they can repair a tire in 10 minutes for under $10 dollars without removing it from the wheel, they aren't following the Rubber Manufacturer's Association procedures. A correctly done flat repair that follows the multi-step repair procedures will take approximately 30 minutes and probably cost around $30. Driving on an improperly repaired tyre is dangerous because it can further damage the tyre and/or allow its strength to deteriorate over time. An improperly repaired tire driven at high speeds may suddenly fail, causing loss of vehicle control. Additionally, the use of an innertube as a substitute for a proper repair generates additional heat and should not be considered.

I hope this helps people who don't understand what is the correct way to repair a tyre

have a a good weekend and drive safe ....

[Lao Jia Hou]

This might be like an oil thread.

Anyways, I recall watching some TV program about cars and the topic of tire plugs, etc., was being discussed. On the basis of the idea that "tire plugs are bad" is simply a marketing ploy by tire manufacturers trying to get you to buy more tires, they interviewed the VP Marketing for Michelin. The VP said "look, if plugging a tire was safe, we'd develop our own plugs and market them." It seems that all the tire manufacturers and the majority of tire shops recommend that sticky rope plugging not be used.

While watching, I recalled a situation that happened when I lived in Canada. Our motorcycle club hosted a couple of Argentinians who were riding South -> North, up to the Arctic Circle. Their tires were full of plugs. We pooled some cash and got them new tires, at cost, from one of our member's shop. On their return, their new tires had a fresh set of plugs in them. Somehow, plugging had worked for them without serious incident.

In our Beijing clubhouse, we've got all the types of repair kits (sticky rope, mushroom plugs with the gun, pressure patches, etc). I personally prefer the mushroom type, but they can be finicky to use. They are also not as compact as a sticky rope repair kit, for carrying on the bike. They do, however, seem to give a better "fix".

Thanks all. This is good reading about tires and repairs to them. I have never patched a tubeless tire, but have patched and replaced tube type tires over the years. We do have an emergency tubless repair kit stored in our SYM HD200 scooter, and we also have a Kymco People 150.

This is where I have my greatest concern - scooters. I love my scooter and ride it everywhere through the city. I am constantly picking up roadside crap around construction sites. If I replaced tires for each puncture, I'd be buying a new set at least once a month (expensive!).

BUT, my scooter has 10 inch wheels - the tire's rotation RPM at 50 km/h is almost twice that of a 17 inch wheel. And losing a tire on a scooter is no fun - scoots are not as controllable as a regular motorcycle with a tire failure. Fortunately, the scoot's tires are tubeless - so quickie repairs are easy, and sudden deflation and tire separation (i.e., as what often happens with tubed tires) is rare. Nevertheless, it is always something in the back of my mind - I think my Suzuki scooter currently has 3 plugs in the rear. I run Pirellis on it, at 400 rmb/each, so I'm certainly not going to be replacing them with each puncture, that's for sure. If I did replace after each puncture, I'd use the OEM ones at about 80 rmb/tire - but they are very slippery tires in the wet, so it is a calculus - do I go for slippery tires or a risk of a plug failure (which usually just results in gradual deflation).

Oh yeah, this will be just like an oil thread.

[prince666]

i am not saying i am against doing punctures repairs on tyres i am just saying if you do them do them correctly ???

and always at some point take the tyre of the rim to inspect for internal damage of the tyre

[bikerdoc]

I'm not going to spend a whole lot repeating myself in this thread given what I already posted in TBR's thread... for me the slimy string plugs have always worked... been using them for years. The key is that they are only used on the right type of puncture, that the cause of the puncture is removed from the tyre, the resultant hole is cleaned before using the applicator to insert the slimy string plug through said hole, then twisting the applicator as it is withdrawn this forms a seal on the inside of the tyre as it does within the hole itself.

Not had one temporary slimy string plug fail, not suffered any lost performance from a tyre as a consequence, not removed a tyre to check that a plug has worked...nor needed to. This type of so called temporary repair have been reliable and worked for me, so based on my my experience - no reason to NOT use the temporary slimy string plug depending on type of puncture and consequently application.

The puncture repair in a can has not been as successful or reliable when compared with temporary slimy string plug therefore statistically for me the temporary slimy string plug has been 100% reliable. The word temporary in this context, is a real misnomer IMO.

Have done the vulcanising patch to the inside of one tyre and one tube on my Dragstar 1100 Classic, but what a pain in the arse that was... if it'd been a tubeless tyre I'd have been able to use the temporary slimy string plug.

It's a bit like the debate on many subjects in life... e.g. how to break in/run in new engines, the debate about global warming, the debate about fossil fuels versus say electric propelled vehicles... and many more... one thing for sure, just like an arsehole, opinions, everyone's got one...

Again, YMMV...