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Thread: CFMoto & KTM

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  1. #21 Re: CFMoto & KTM 
    KING of MCM LOL prince666's Avatar
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    I post what titbits of information I get when I can for the benefit of all here on MCM.
    You keep up the good work Doc. would you like to make a comment now Bigdamo!
    "Arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics, even if you win you're still retarded"
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  2. #22 Re: CFMoto & KTM 
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    my two cents..

    I have read/heard that CFMoto will start to import big KTM bikes from Europe and KTM Duke 200 and 300 will be coming in to country as parts from india's factory and this is where CFMoto will come in to play as building those bikes, but these bikes are only for Chinese markets.

    Also (i definitely could be wrong about this) there is not really any great benefits to build bikes in china compared to importing them, but it seems there is benefits to do so in small bikes as china is trying to protect it own bike industries...

    as them building one.. hard to say.. KTM had success in India, but not sure if they would use CFMoto anything more than assembly line....
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  3. #23 Re: CFMoto & KTM 
    Senior C-Moto Guru bigdamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prince666 View Post
    You keep up the good work Doc. would you like to make a comment now Bigdamo!
    Yeah sure why don't you FOLLOW YOUR OWN ADVICE .
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  4. #24 Re: CFMoto & KTM 
    KING of MCM LOL prince666's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdamo View Post
    Yeah sure why don't you FOLLOW YOUR OWN ADVICE .



    Is that the best you ca do !!! well cant waste no more time on this matter of to watch the Golf looks more intresting ....
    "Arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics, even if you win you're still retarded"
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  5. #25 Re: CFMoto & KTM 
    Senior C-Moto Guru ZMC888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wald0
    s china is trying to protect it own bike industries...
    Yes but on the other hand they seem to be destroying their own industries, by banning motorcycles from cities and expressways and doing inadequate R&D. Also they are undermining their own ebike industry by attempting to ban ones that have any real power meaning the future of ebikes and battery powered motorcycles is in the hands of Germans and Japanese. They have a chance, but are throwing it away due to some unsustainable insecure obsession with the internal combustion engined car.

    When in the end the world is zipping around on electric scooters, motorcycles and driving electric/hybrid cars the penny will suddenly drop and they start their reluctant reverse-engineering cheapo copy catch-up plan. They'd curse themselves for being so short-sighted, only they can't admit failure to themselves let alone anyone else.
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  6. #26 Re: CFMoto & KTM 
    Senior C-Moto Guru bigdamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prince666 View Post
    Is that the best you ca do !!! well cant waste no more time on this matter of to watch the Golf looks more intresting ....
    Quote Originally Posted by prince666 View Post
    Is that the best you ca do !!! well cant waste no more time on this matter of to watch the Golf looks more intresting ....
    Hey Little princeling I was going to follow your advice and keep my mouth shut but seeing as you can't follow your own advice and keep your mouth shut here you go

    Bikedoc for some reason you think is a GOD and everything he says is gospel.Well in my many years in China doing business and living there if I got a dollar if I believed some Chinese business associate telling me their business is doing this or aligned with some major western business well I'd have a over a thousand bucks by now but little princleing you believe every thing you hear that's your problem naive as you are.

    Ok Bikeboc quoted this from his first post

    "After some calls back and forth by all and each of us to other third parties, finally we were told that there is some form of collaboration between KTM and CFMoto (but not what form the collaboration takes) only seemingly that the KTM990ADV (although it may have been the KTM690 - but who knows in the TIC translation BS) forms the basis of the CFMoto adventurer design, but with the same 650 inline twin cylinder engine as shared with the NK & TR."

    I called BS on this.

    Bikedoc and yourself called on me to eat my hat so to speak.Fine happy to do this if proven wrong but I spoke to my friend in KTM Australia and after he stopped laughing he said KTM would never let their brand get trashed by ANY manufacturer let alone a Chinese motorcycle manufacturer.

    So little princleling or Bikedoc what time frame are we talking about before we see a KTM motorcycle joint venture with CF moto released onto the Chinese Market.

    Because now I will report back on this thread every three months eagerly awaiting a CF moto/KTM adventure bike and not CFmoto just copying KTM as many Chinese manufactures copy and bastardized western brands.

    BUT seriously why would KTM do that when obviously they are selling their brand already in China. Why would they let CF moto or anyone else bastardized their brand.

    What are you and Bikedoc going to eat when you are proven wrong when this mythological KTM/CF moto combined effort doesn't appear ??
    Last edited by bigdamo; 10-13-2013 at 08:02 AM.
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  7. #27 Re: CFMoto & KTM 
    KING of MCM LOL prince666's Avatar
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    BUT seriously why would KTM do that when obviously they are selling their brand already in China.

    Why would many big names across the world tie up deals with Chinese companies because you get a ready made distribution network amongst other things China is massive market and KTM is only touching the surface . now with CF onboard the the world is their oyster so to speak so lets leave it their and wait on see is best but i hear your points

    no need to eat a hat !!! i am man enough to say you was right

    You get no points for being condescending by the way
    "Arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics, even if you win you're still retarded"
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  8. #28 Re: CFMoto & KTM 
    Senior C-Moto Guru bigdamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prince666 View Post
    Why would many big names across the world tie up deals with Chinese companies because you get a ready made distribution network amongst other things China is massive market and KTM is only touching the surface . now with CF onboard the the world is their oyster so to speak so lets leave it their and wait on see is best but i hear your points
    Prince I think you might be abit naive about big name business companies selling there soul to get a toe into the Chinese market these days maybe 5 years ago or more they were inclined to do so but now ?To many business have been burnt and have moved on to other markets.Why do you think many Motorcycle manufacturers are using India and other countries rather than China.Hows Google going in Mainland China these days?

    Removed the web link to foreign business people in J in China.Let me know Prince if you want me to keep going or keep my mouth shut as you suggested.

    Didn't know we were playing for points you were the one who goaded me.Well you got your reply.
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  9. #29 Re: CFMoto & KTM 
    KING of MCM LOL prince666's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdamo View Post
    Prince I think you might be abit naive about big name business companies selling there soul to get a toe into the Chinese market these days maybe 5 years ago or more they were inclined to do so but now ?To many business have been burnt and have moved on to other markets.Why do you think many Motorcycle manufacturers are using India and other countries rather than China.Hows Google going in Mainland China these days?

    Removed the web link to foreign business people in J in China.Let me know Prince if you want me to keep going or keep my mouth shut as you suggested.

    Didn't know we were playing for points you were the one who goaded me.Well you got your reply.

    i post what the report was for people to read


    THERE are more Australians jailed in China than anywhere else in the world, despite the growing diplomatic, business and trade ties between the two nations.

    Figures released by the Australian embassy in Beijing show there were 35 Australians serving a prison sentence in China up until the start of May.
    what is your point here ..... is it Australians people are BAD and get sent to jail or are you saying these peopel should not be in prison !!!!

    I have loads of time no need to work so please we can keep on with these posts golf is over now with Charl SCHWARTZEL (RSA) the winner maybe he will get sent to prison as well lol
    "Arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics, even if you win you're still retarded"
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  10. #30 Re: CFMoto & KTM 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    I think that CFMOTO with its 150cc put a water cooled head on the GS150R Suzuki engine, the bore and stoke are the same and both have a six speed gearbox, they also look similar in layout.

    The CFMOTO 150 is rated at:
    149.4 @10.5kw

    10.5kw/149.4= .07 kw per liter, that’s 14.25hp
    If it was a 125cc then it would offer around 12hp.
    If it was a 175cc then it would offer about 16.5hp.
    If they can manage to keep the same hp to liter ratio.

    The fact that they are not further developing that engine seems foolish to me.
    They could be taking allot of L class in the UK with it and in that building a following of new riders while simultaneously building distribution partners.

    They could have a value entry level bike in the USA with a 175cc version, if they can keep the power consistent in that engine. Theoretically it even could be a 199cc and offer close to 20hp.

    They need to consider building into the market at the line of market entry and that’s new riders. In that they work on systems and that’s about training on the systems and products, it is all about a distributed system that is linked in to the factory and supply. Its about technology and in that information systems.

    You should not need to speak to anyone when you need a spare part, but you also should be able to painlessly make a warranty claim and get regular servicing with confidence.

    Its always or often about people thinking they can operate out of an autonomous bubble. They lack flows and snap shots, they do not have way to measure how well they are doing.

    Why did they drop their scooter line? In that they started partnerships in the market and then abruptly cut them all off.

    They have partners that are buying their 600cc twins and those partners are buying other smaller displacement bikes and scooters from other suppliers. They see the importance of having the 150 in China but cannot see the importance of also covering more of the market in other markets.

    They have to understand and address multiple levels of the market and in that they can systematically build brand recognition, some levels of the market are dynamically changing, that represents people. In that many progress, they move up and in that they base the next choice on experiences….if they had very good luck they are reluctant to change. Not that many take risks, some do but most go for the known positive experience so in that they build up and in that they have to insure the best they can from the bottom up.

    Seems that all it takes is one loud negative perception and its like a house of cards falling. Try not to destroy them under the context of constructive criticism “Tough Love” after all they are one of the few actually rushing to give you what you want, probably before they are truly ready to do it and to that of what is a recognized international standard.
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