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  1. #1 BMW, KTM, TVS, Husquvarna.... 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    Why is BMW partnering with TVS?


    Its the KTM DUKES that are inspiring them, the 390 is detailed on the USA KTM website but it is not listed for sale. However based on the language it seems the intention is for sale in the USA.


    With the 390 only weighing 330lb and offering 44hp, who would not enjoy ridding it?


    I predict the under 500cc market gets really heated up in the coming years, BMW is likely to introduce its own urban street bike to compete with the KTM Duke line. They are not hiding the fact that they intend to do with TVS the same as KTM-Bajaj are doing, they plan to mass produce and offer two lines under both brands.


    What is interesting is that BMW sold off Husqvarna and sold the brand to the president of KTM as Pierer Industrie AG of Austria, as in Stephan Pierer. This man is not afraid of a challenge look what he has done with KTM.


    Bajaj is also interested in a controlling interest in KTM, they are interest in purchasing an additional 8-9% share and also want to build more advanced bikes in India.


    How can Pierer maintain a executive position with KTM when he owns a competitive brand?


    Also there is a technology share with BMW at Husquvarna that being the 650 single. To make it even more interesting that engine is coming out of Loncin in China. Pierer has already been quoted as saying he has no interests in manufacturing in China, that he feels that the business environment favors always the Chinese and he is not as an executive interested in being placed as second in such environments.


    Bajaj is poised to basically take over KTM, they are going after a controlling interest and with that they would control the company. Not necessarily any of this is bad or wrong, but some of it looks like manipulating as KTM gets bought out then what is in it ultimately for Pierer? Can a president of one corporation sell off that company to fund his own?


    I better see some affordable bikes out of this, because that is what matters not these power brokers getting richer off the back of low paid India labor and selling low cost mass production at premiums under premiums brands, to me it is maniacal, I am seeing signs of corruption when lines are crossed. How can the executive of a corporation own a competitive brand? He could literally cash out his shares at a premium and shift the capital he earns to a competitive brand that he owns.


    The game is rigged I think.
    Last edited by MJH; 09-08-2013 at 05:29 PM.
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  2. #2 Re: BMW, KTM, TVS, Husquvarna.... 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    CCM is advertising a new adventure bike, they call it a GP450.
    The engine looks to be sourced from BMW and the same engine used in the BMW 450-X .


    http://www.ccm-motorcycles.com/


    I wonder if that is a market test bike? It seems to me that would be a very good model for the Indian market?
    Up to 500cc and this is a 450cc, it could be a sign of what BMW has in store for its ventures with TVS?

    Currently the 450X engine has production in Taiwan through Kymco or at least it did in 2008. Seems that may still be the case? It also possible that BMW with its changes released the right to that engine?
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  3. #3 Re: BMW, KTM, TVS, Husquvarna.... 
    C-Moto Not-so-Noob Rewi Alley's Avatar
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    BMW made a real mess of its ownership of Husqvarna. It lost a bunch of money and apparently when Pierer's people took controi and did a stock-take, they found around 12,000 unsold Huskies warehoused! The Italians say this was all due to the arrogance of the Germans (BMW) who thought they knew how to turn around a dirt-bike manufacturer. The Italian unions are screaming now it has come out the entire operation in Italy is being closed down and production moved to Austria (and perhaps later, India).

    “It is a case of industrial looting,” says Nino Cartosio part of the Fiom CGIL ( the union trade Federazione Impiegati Operai Metallurgici of Confederazione Generale Italiana del Lavoro).

    Regarding Bajaj and KTM. Bajaj owns 47 per cent. Stefan Pierer controls the voting for the rest of the shares.

    I think you need to get your head around the fact that KTM is a part of Cross Industries, also controlled by Pierer.

    If you are really interested, I'll dog out the ownership chart.
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  4. #4 Re: BMW, KTM, TVS, Husquvarna.... 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    I am more interested in the technology shares that link BMW with Husqvarna even after the sale.
    Particularly the engines, maybe they will drop them for engines that KTM has?


    Do you think that they will drop the initiative to make Husqvarna street bikes, because I do not think they will I think they will offer street models and with low cost versions out of India Production.


    My bet would be that you see something like the Baja concept with the KTM singles made in India.
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  5. #5 Re: BMW, KTM, TVS, Husquvarna.... 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    When companies split they typically contractually define divisions of technology assets, who gets what and for how long. In this case BMW most likely offered a license for what is the likes of the 650cc single for a term. There are other ways that could go.


    I cannot see how much shares are owned online, its available but these days its all part of premium services I do not have, I suspected that he had a significant interest or he would not be able to do what he is doing.


    I believe that the initiative of Baja to gain control was put off this year, the Austrian are not willing to relinquish a controlling interest. That bit of drama may have or should have driven the value of any publicly held shares, because Bajaj could have taken that control hostilely by buying up public shares and at a premium.


    I doubt that the executive holds more then 47% on his own, he likely holds a significant enough of an amount to control the board but I highly doubt that the public shares remaining are in the single percentile of total shares outstanding. But it is Austria and not the USA.
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  6. #6 Re: BMW, KTM, TVS, Husquvarna.... 
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    KTM is a part of Cross Industries, also controlled by Pierer. Cross Industries owns several companies, including KTM AG, parent of KTM Sportsmotorcycles. Cross Industries is not a public company as far as I am aware. Cross Indusries owns Pankl, the piston and connecting rod manufacturer. Pankl owns Carillo too.

    There's more here if you are interested: http://www.cross-ag.com/newsroom/?tx...58035aa275760b

    Regarding the future of Husqvarna, Pierer has repeatedly stated he wants to see the company return to its roots, in serious off-road bikes and Motard machines. He clearly stated the Nuda would no longer be produced. However, he made no mention of the BMW 650 single powered 650TR, which is actually superior BMW models with the same engine.

    The engine is made by Loncin in China so whether it will be available to the Pierer-controlled Husqvarna operation remains to be seen. It is a heavier and smoother running engine than the 690 KTM motor and owners of the original F650 Funduros have achieved more than 200,000 km with no mechanical bothers.

    Yes, it would be great if Pierer went ahead with the 650 Baja but with the collapse of Europe, it is doubtful it will see production for at least a year, if at all.
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  7. #7 Re: BMW, KTM, TVS, Husquvarna.... 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    I do not want that type bike with a 650, I want a line of them 125, 200 and 390. I want them to buy the engines from KTM and cut prices because the engines cost less to make in India. Actually I would like to see them mass produced and sold cheap globally.


    I like that style bike, I also would like a 40hp single in it.


    He may plan on developing only dirt bikes and then sell off KTM to Bajaj, since they are the only other share holder then that is likely to happen. All he has to do sell the shares since it is a public company. Cross it is a private holding company.
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  8. #8 Re: BMW, KTM, TVS, Husquvarna.... 
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    BMW HEALTH WARNING

    New Zealand company Te Waipounamu Motorcycle Tours, reports on BMW longevity:

    TeWaipounamu MotorcycleTours NZ
    May 6
    Ho, ho, ho BMW owners be afraid , very afraid. Just like open heart surgery this is nothing to fear.. .We are running around 25 of the 1200 models and unfortunately this is required maintenance every couple of years or 40k. Surprisingly the whole procedure of removing the rear end , pulling the gearbox , checking the clutch and reassembly can be done in around 4 hours if all goes well. As it turned out on this one, the bolt that holds the rear shock to the swing arm was broken in 3 places, hmmm, not sure why or when. Just shows regular maintenance is more than just saving money. BMW have done way with the dry clutch on the new 1200GS . That leaves only the famous Italian Irrigation Pump manufacturers Moto Guzzi to wave the dry clutch flag ( which is now probably white). All those private owners of GS s who have broken out in a cold sweat on seeing these photos, good, don t delay. A little money now saves a lot of money later...
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  9. #9 Re: BMW, KTM, TVS, Husquvarna.... 
     

  10. #10 Re: BMW, KTM, TVS, Husquvarna.... 
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