If you want to ride in China and need help....

[ZMC888]

Please PM Canadian Dave or me for information.

There are various matters that have legal nature, and better not discussed in an open forum.

[SabineHartmann]

some Weeks ago a Mail was send to us with new Chinese Trafic Regulations, starting 01.01.09.

here is a Copy:

Dear Expatriates,
>
> pls pay special attention to the changes in regulations which will affect all foreign drivers in China
>
> According to various sources the Ministry of Public Security will implement new regulations valid as of January 1, 2009 allowing for foreign drivers to be placed under the same jurisdiction as local Chinese drivers. This means that police will have the right to detain and incarcerate foreigners suspected of being responsible for road accidents until the respective case is closed. This is in compliance with Chinese legislation which forbids foreigners to leave the country while involved in criminal or civil cases.
>
> In addition, the law will allow guilty drivers to be imprisoned for up to three years; possible incarceration period is up to seven years for those who flee the scene of a fatal accident. Assets and bank accounts of defendants may also be frozen upon request by the victim’s family before any civil suits to cover medical treatment, loss of earnings, damages for suffering and a police fine. Getting off without paying anything is not possible as police will usually allocate part of the fault in road accidents to all parties involved.
>
> In addition, experience has shown that foreigners are easily blamed to have caused accidents even though they are not at fault.
>
> Foreigners are therefore encouraged to revisit the topic of driving in China. Employees with company car entitlement should let their designated drivers take them and their family around. Private car owners need to be aware of the aforementioned dangers of driving in China. People not speaking Chinese fluently should keep a phone number of a Chinese speaker close by. Both groups should ensure sufficient insurance; a police record of any accident is necessary for the insurance to pay. A valid Chinese license is still mandatory.
>
> A Chinese driver can also be contracted privately; pls refer to the classifieds in most expat/city magazines for vendors.
>

Nobody likes thinking about an Accident. But shit happens !

[ZMC888]

Not really sure about the relevance of this.

I've only ever seen this pasted, never an original article. The English seems unusually good for someone who is a Chinese government worker.

All I want to say is this..a government can officially attempt to 'shut the gate' and then lock it for our own safety..however in reality people will attempt merely to jump the gate and possibly injure themselves in the process, so when trying to climb the gate, people should be given as much safety assistance as possible. The person will still try to climb the gate, with help or not.

We're not trying to encourage anyone to ride a motorcycle in China, in fact dissuade many from doing it at all, surely it would be better to ride in other parts of Asia? I can tell you from personal experience Thailand is easier, cheaper, cleaner, safer, more friendly, more legal has better roads, food and weather! So if a potential rider hasn't already ridden there, I would tell them to go ride there first and not bother with China at all, or at a much later stage.

This person suggests that company workers be driven by a local driver?
Yes, F1 drivers need a special Chinese driver when they came to Shanghai for the GP, this only embarrasses China in the international community. Yet you can just go to other countries in Asia and drive. China needs to sort out its road rules and legal framework to join the rest of the international community, and not try to legislate foreigners off their roads, because it just won't work, people will continue to come to China and will want to drive cars and ride motorcycles. Riding a bicycle in a Chinese city to an extent is dangerous, should we all be banned from this too for our own safety?

[Canadian Dave]

Sabine,
your post didn't have much relevance to the original. i think he made it pretty clear that the first thing someone should do BEFORE deciding to ride in China is to ask if they'd actually like to go somewhere else. China has a lot to offer the curious rider, but in the same breath has a painful justice system as far as traffic law is concerned. Know that although these new laws have been enacted, their relevance is still negligible. The basic law of portioning blame and thus settlement is still gonna be the same. i'll say one thing for the Chinese system, you don't REALLY need insurance as only the major extreme (i.e. you causing some disaster of epic proportions) is going to warrant using it and even then, your coverage will be EXTREMELY minimal and the deductible will be about10,000 yuan.
Just do what the Chinese do; don't drive like a maniac keeping speed down and you won't ever be in a high speed accident. Yes they drive chaotically, but they usually do it slowly.

[SabineHartmann]

I think there is one!
this article was an Information from Siemens Ltd. China to us Expats and was not written from a Government Office.
OK, so there is no official status. There is also no official status in newspapers, TV or the Internet but that didn`t means that you should not listen to informations you can get. I own a Chinese Driving License which includes the Chinese Motorbike Licence. A lot Expats dont have one and they dont care. A lot of Bikes are owned by Expats which have no insurence or enough money to pay if something happens and they become more and more.
Soon spring is back in Beijing and you will see 16, 17....year "old" Expat youngsters riding 150 ccm scooters and bigger engines. Daddy will pay, who cares?
Yes, there is a big difference between the written law and what happens on our roads in China, but that didn`t means that this cannot changing fast.

[Canadian Dave]

i'm not saying the laws can't and won't change, but i AM saying they won't change quickly. Also, the further you get from Beijing or Shanghai the more likely they are to be overlooked. Believe me when i say, if you get in an accident here and it's your fault, it's still a heck of a lot better than being stuck in the USA in similar circumstances!

i have a license, insurance and registration as well and though it helps, it doesn't mean you'll be working the gulag if you don't have it.

Regardless, the people that DO come here for a motorcycle trip, assuming they DO know that they'll be driving unlicensed, know they do it at their own risk. It's part of the allure i reckon. Outlaw biker and all that rot...

ZMC888 states very clearly it's illegal and that the potential riders should actually choose somewhere else. HOWEVER! If they choose otherwise, we of the Zibo Motorcycle Club stand ready to assist them in any way we can.
We don't deny your claims, we simply state that what you're saying is not likely to dissuade too many people from coming. Hopefully, the government changes other laws and actually gives people the option to acquire temporary riding permits right along side the temporary driving permits already allowed by law. This would be a great goodness as there's a heck of a lot worth seeing here!

[chinabiker]

Zibo Motorcycle Club can: ...

... do nothing, because I don't think ZMC has any legal status in this country, China.
I am really surprised how far you guys lean yourself out of the window - in a quite arrogant way I have to say.
Before you start: we don't need to discuss driving / riding skills, performance of law enforcement or any other weaknesses you've spotted.
No guys, don't mess around here with your so called help and advice - it is BS, you know that and it does NOT help anyone. It does the opposite - it harms the few who are willing to follow law, rules and regulations, how weak they might be in your eyes.

Also keep in mind that cnn is watching - always.

Andy

P.S. I don't work for the government, but I respect the fact that I've been given the privilege to ride and drive legally in China.

[culcune]

Wow, and I thought Snortin's posts/resulting threads are controversial!

I have yet to truely explore the country(ies) just south of me, but I think there is less controversy riding/driving in Mexico or south, than China. There seems to be a middle ground between the two "camps" posting here, as I have read of successful journeys by non-Chinese citizens in China. But it does seem like too much of a pain in the ass to make the journey there. It seems that starting off in Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, etc. would be a better bet and alot less complicated.

I know that 'Beemer Boy' from ADVRider and our very own Crazy Man himself, Carl, have both done great stories on their trips, complete with many photos and/or videos (Buy Carl's movie--it's great entertainment!!!!!!!!), but both were involved in major crashes, too, which would scare me away from riding there. Then again, Mexican drivers suck, too, and that hasn't scared me enough from riding there, so it all comes down to money--I don't have or make enough to get anywhere, dammit. Now I'm all depressed and will go to Mexico to drink a beer and some tequila and ponder the arguments of riding in China.

[CrazyCarl]

Hehehe... WHEEEE!!! I think what we have here is a failure to communicate!



CC

[ZMC888]

What the hell, I thought we were friends, you could have at least sent me a PM to discuss these concerns of yours!

... do nothing, because I don't think ZMC has any legal status in this country, China.

I can take a shit but I don't need government legal status to do it.

Yes of course everything everywhere is just like Beijing in the 1970's we should be very careful to shrink and hide, what if the government spies are watching? Or maybe in reality only care if there is an accident. How long have you been living here? You seem way too paranoid.

I am really surprised how far you guys lean yourself out of the window

Possibly if we lived in Beijing we would be leaning our heads too far out of the window, but we don't. Every province and city is administered differently, what may be highly illegal or strictly forbidden in one place, no one cares about in another, or is only enforced on a 'purge' basis. Come here see the Chinese riders with no plates, no insurance, no helmet, the local motorcycle shop selling stolen Hong Kong bikes (again with no insurance or plates). The Chinese riders, many of whom ride unregistered BMW's and Harleys bought in Beijing, unregistered because that would double the cost of the bike. Chinese riders routinely do illegal things everywhere, get a grip, understand the country the way it really is. Many times in the countryside it takes a while to spot a registered bike!

I respect the fact that I've been given the privilege to ride and drive legally in China

Yes, I mean it is an exclusive club they have let you join, with all those other fantastic riders huh? I mean people with only a European or American license for example, they really aren't up to the 'challenge' in the same way you are, are they? You're a much better rider because the Chinese government have been just so super wonderful and kind to give you a laminated photocard!

You and some others seem to believe that you are special and exclusive somehow. It seems you are so pissed off because you perceive that other people are trying to damage your exclusive status.