Asiawing has more details on their new stuff

[ZMC888]

Personally I think the Spark is a modern Yamaha licensed quad engine (but bought through the back door), but with a Cagiva copied everything else. I also think this will not be the first Chinese 400cc+ pure street bike to be available for general sale, because Asiawing do not see the market potential and another manufacturer such as Zongshen will beat them to it. This is because most Chinese manufacturers do not see the value of a 500cc commuter bike for a reasonable price. I've been trying to get Asiawing to nail down an idea of ANY bike 450cc plus that could be registered in China, and have failed. All know is the LX450 which compares poorly with the Japanese competition is available for sale, export only.

[ChinaV]

I've been trying to get Asiawing to nail down an idea of ANY bike 450cc plus that could be registered in China, and have failed. All know is the LX450 which compares poorly with the Japanese competition is available for sale, export only.

I thought you mentioned before that the 400cc dual sport can be registered in China? I sent an email to Asiawing and they quoted me 17,800 RMB for the XY400Y-2 and they claim that bike can be registered.

One interesting point, brought up during a factory visit last year (not Asiawing), was the fact that none of the Chinese manufacturers have experience with motorcycles that exceed 120 kph (JH600 excluded). If you want to slap parts together and make pit bikes, that's one thing, but over 100 kph and you need much better components than the current supply chain can deliver. As much as I would like to see bigger bikes, it scares me that they're building them with the same mentality as the small bikes.

Cheers!
ChinaV

[ZMC888]

To be fair Asiawing claimed the LX450 motard could be registered. But then they claimed that that Spark was available for sale and had EFI, which was not true. They seem confused between what they want to do, and can actually do. These inconsistencies made me not believe them. I've never seen any registered Asiawings in Shandong, and this is where they are made!

Certainly they do need better components in the Chinese parts bin, but only some companies need to use it as they are assemblers. Other companies such as Zongshen, Jialing, Qingqi etc are big enough to make their own stuff or to demand better from their suppliers. A 500cc Chinese bike has some issues with component quality, but remember that they are probably only going to be playing with 24-32KW single engines, also that they already produce millions of quad bikes with these engines and plenty of 250cc bikes, so it is a reasonable jump.

I just can't understand why Japanese companies don't make a reasonable 400-500cc single through their joint ventures and lead the way? No imagination? Not allowed? Afraid of having technology stolen?

[izi rider]

In europe there is some demand for 400-500 cc motorcycles but no one comes with an offer. Why?
Because of price issues.
One 600 cc starts at 6.500 Euro and has 2-4 cil and more than 70 HP. An 400-500 cc with 50 HP would be @ 5.500 and many would say that the difference is too small. If they were to use a configuraton like the Spark price would probably drop to 4.500 but... with lots of cons.

look at Yamaha MT-03 wich is a nice bike but does not sell as well as the Fazer or Hornet.

[ZMC888]

I think realistically the Chinese could sell 400-500cc bikes for about $3000-3,500 US. (2,000-2,400 Euro). This would be cheaper than many of the Japanese branded 250cc bikes currently available. Someone who has a Ducati isn't going to want a YBR250 or a Ninja 250 for a 2nd bike. But they may want a cheap simple 500cc single that the can commute on, and learn wheelies, endos and knee down stuff on and leand to friends and relatives and work on themselves. Not to mention the riding school potential. Something that was a 500cc single but looked like a Suzuki Bandit would sell very well for that price IMO.


Something that looked like this early 90's 400cc Bandit, but with single front disk and a 500cc single oil-cooled engine for $3000-3,500?.

[peterkue]

I absolutely agree with ZMC888. A bike like the 400cc Bandit would sell in Europe. At that time the Bandits (400, 600 and 1200 cc as far as I remember) sold very well, the 400 was very popular, not only for commuters. It was, what we call in Germany a "bread-and-butter-bike". Good for everyday, very popular amongst women, couriers, beginners, sometime as second bike etc. At that time the engine was already a bit outdated, but nobody really cared. The people who bought this bike wanted something simple, reliable, not the latest high-tech-bike. And that's the point why Aisawing may fail if they bring the Spark to Europe: It doesn't have the reputation (yet) as a reliable bike, riders would be very sceptical. The non-existent dealer network will also be a problem to the potential client group (who's not looking for something rare, seldom, exclusive).
Remember Hyosung? The also had (actually have) these bread-and-butter-bikes, but don't sell well, although the price and quality is ok. But only a few dealers.
These are the problems that Chinese producers will face, once they have their quality issues fixed... So they have a very long way to go, if they want to be successful in western markets. The question is: Do they want this? Maybe not, as they are still makin' money with their 125's and 250s here in China. As long as the Chinese consumer who uses motorbikes only until they can afford cars (a situation similar to the past WWII in Germany), as long as 125 or 250 brings you from point A to point B Unless there's a larger trend in China to use motorbikes as a hobby there won't be any real market in China. In Germany (don't know about other European markets post WWII) motorbikes became first a symbol of individualisation and being a rebel not being conform with the society (with upcoming of Rockers in the 60's and 70's, FlowerPower, Easy Rider). But individualisation and the like is something that will be suppressed in China ( for 'harmonious society')

Just today I spoke to a Chinese well informed motorbike guy and asked him what's his opinion why (larger) bikes are not 'favoured' by the gov of the Paranoid Republic of Cheat: He said it's because they're afraid the gangsters can't be caught if they ride bigger, faster bikes (In Shenzhen, he said, it's definetly the case, as they had problems with gangsters on bikes recently and prohibited even small bikes just more recently). Can be true, at least that's one of the reasons. As long as the gov doesn't support the production of bigger bikes, not much will happen here. I also asked him about Jianling, as they would have the money, the facilties. He said that Jialing is an ammunition producer, bikes make only a very small fraction of their business. They are simply not interested in developing more, the JH600 was a test and failed.
We also discussed Asiawing. He said they will not continue to develop the LD/LX450, too many problems. Particular the scrappy forks (I tried it, they are really BS) would be too expensive to improve.

[izi rider]

250 cc is good. 500cc is great. I remember my early days (more than 10 years ago) when I was riding CZ/JAWA and IZH motorcycles with 15-27 HP. My first bike was a MZ125-3 with 6 HP. I was fun and I realy miss those days.
I would like to see bikes with a more elaborate design. Look at a Kawasaki 250 R and them look at QM250 2D. When you are 18 yrs old you will make any effort possible to get the first.
Look at Kawasaki ER6N or Yamaha MT 03. Both are @6500 Euro. Then look at the Spark and consider a selling price of 4000 E. (see link) The difference is justifiable and I would go for one but if they don't look for dealers across Europe I will not put my money.
They have to find dealers and back them up with exclusivity and good after sales policy. I tried to import bikes but the warranty promised was 6-12 months from the time I received the bikes not from the registration. What if I am going to sell the bikes after 1 year? what if the owner is moveing to another country? Is the bulgarian importer going to honour the waranty? He is not... so I abandoned the ideea.