CFMoto 650TR muffler upgrade

[prince666]

Waldo it's all good I think I'm just one of those who wants a proper dyno tested muffler with a cat and a properly reprogrammed ECU. My options in China don't allow all that, so I'll leave it for now, unless the cat is in the header....then maybe.

Akrapovič Silencer SLIP-ON for KAWASAKI ER 6 N-F

Has a Performance Graph for the ER-6 which is the closest we will get to the TR/NK. The Akrapovic comes with new Cat as well
job done all the boxs ticked now. well 2 out of 3 just need to sort out the ECU

power chart.jpg

link here http://www.cmracing.eu/akrapovic/pro...slip-on--2818/

As to the Cat not sure now , i always consided the big box under the bike to be a cat/muffler

[bikerdoc]

Went down to the garage, had a look inside the mysterious 'box' which is not empty at all, weighs about 5kg for starters, so unless it has some solid steel or lead plates inside. What I can see from the end with the largest diameter straight pipe which connects to the headers, is a very tight honeycomb metal object/wall only several or so centimetres inside. Poke it with a long enough object and it won't go further in than that, though don't know how deep this honeycomb object might be. The other end of the 'box' has a small diameter pipe which is bent to connect to the small exhaust can. Difficult to see far into that section due to both smaller diameter and bend in the pipe. I stuck a chop stick in that end and hard to tell if it hit anything since it got wedged the more I advanced the chop stick.

Regardless, the honeycomb section is what I would expect to see, after all a catalytic converter uses a catalyst (usually a combination of precious metals) to alter fumes/gases from one form to another e.g. from carbon monoxide to carbon dioxide (which also assists in warming the earth surface)

I didn't bother looking into the tail end section of the end 'can' which might also have an additional part to play in removing any other harmful gases.

If I wanted to be certain I'd cut open that box, but I'm keeping it intact for now. I highly doubt CFMoto would be able to get away with having a fake 'box' filled with nothing claiming it to be a catalytic converter, given they are marketing, exporting and selling these bikes in multiple markets including the USA, OZ, NZ, UK, many of whom will do their own independent testing of any and all claims especially the US EPA given their history with CFMoto products in the past.

What I can say for certain, is my cheap CNY500 muffler, has resulted in much better fuel economy over the standard OEM muffler and catalytic converter. There is better 'seat of the pants' feel to low down grunt, and mid range. Of course only a Dyno run - before and after conversion, through a range of RPM's and gears would quantify that, but I aint bothered...

It has allowed me to identify where a possible centre stand could be attached to the frame where the catalytic converter 'box' was located, and the likely reason one was not fitter/offered as standard.

If me and my mate here in Ningbo get round to making centre stands for the TR, I'll be sure to make a few extras which will be offered to other inmates (will be sold at a profit - not cost), but I'll be sure to advertise them in the for sale section ('cause while I might be charitable, I aint a charity).

[prince666]

Went down to the garage, had a look inside the mysterious 'box' which is not empty at all, weighs about 5kg for starters, so unless it has some solid steel or lead plates inside. What I can see from the end with the largest diameter straight pipe which connects to the headers, is a very tight honeycomb metal object/wall only several or so centimetres inside. Poke it with a long enough object and it won't go further in than that, though don't know how deep this honeycomb object might be. The other end of the 'box' has a small diameter pipe which is bent to connect to the small exhaust can. Difficult to see far into that section due to both smaller diameter and bend in the pipe. I stuck a chop stick in that end and hard to tell if it hit anything since it got wedged the more I advanced the chop stick.

Regardless, the honeycomb section is what I would expect to see, after all a catalytic converter uses a catalyst (usually a combination of precious metals) to alter fumes/gases from one form to another e.g. from carbon monoxide to carbon dioxide (which also assists in warming the earth surface)

I didn't bother looking into the tail end section of the end 'can' which might also have an additional part to play in removing any other harmful gases.

If I wanted to be certain I'd cut open that box, but I'm keeping it intact for now. I highly doubt CFMoto would be able to get away with having a fake 'box' filled with nothing claiming it to be a catalytic converter, given they are marketing, exporting and selling these bikes in multiple markets including the USA, OZ, NZ, UK, many of whom will do their own independent testing of any and all claims especially the US EPA given their history with CFMoto products in the past.

What I can say for certain, is my cheap CNY500 muffler, has resulted in much better fuel economy over the standard OEM muffler and catalytic converter. There is better 'seat of the pants' feel to low down grunt, and mid range. Of course only a Dyno run - before and after conversion, through a range of RPM's and gears would quantify that, but I aint bothered...

It has allowed me to identify where a possible centre stand could be attached to the frame where the catalytic converter 'box' was located, and the likely reason one was not fitter/offered as standard.

If me and my mate here in Ningbo get round to making centre stands for the TR, I'll be sure to make a few extras which will be offered to other inmates (will be sold at a profit - not cost), but I'll be sure to advertise them in the for sale section ('cause while I might be charitable, I aint a charity).

I will be very interested in a centre stand if you get round to making them, and yes profit is not a dirty word in my world, so do you think the cat is in the large box .

[bikerdoc]

I will be very interested in a centre stand if you get round to making them, and yes profit is not a dirty word in my world, so do you think the cat is in the large box .

Yes, I do think that the catalytic converter is inside that big 'box'. What I see in the end of the 'box' is a structure not unlike this one...

MC-Catalytic-Converter.jpg

Albeit likely rectangular.

Based on my rather rudimentary, crude assessment and examination of the said 'box' I'd surmise that the internals of the 'box' would be very similar to these ones...

Catalytic-Converters.jpg

Probably a design similar internally as the one bottom right in the picture.

[ZMC888]

What I can see from the end with the largest diameter straight pipe which connects to the headers, is a very tight honeycomb metal object/wall only several or so centimetres inside. Poke it with a long enough object and it won't go further in than that, though don

Agreed, it looks like a cat, it's in the right place to be a cat so it's a cat. No manufacturer is ever going to increase costs and the weight of their bike by making an extra secondary muffler, it doesn't stand to reason!

What I can say for certain, is my cheap CNY500 muffler, has resulted in much better fuel economy over the standard OEM muffler and catalytic converter. There is better 'seat of the pants' feel to low down grunt, and mid range. Of course only a Dyno run - before and after conversion, through a range of RPM's and gears would quantify that, but I aint bothered...

Most likely it's a psychological effect and rationalization. Any manufacturer is desperate to shift bikes, you shift bikes by offering a competitive price, better fuel economy, lighter weight and more power than the next manufacturer, if gaining power and fuel economy was so easy as slapping on a 500 yuan muffler the manufacturer would have figured it out at R&D stage. One or other maybe, but surely not both power and economy. Now it may be that the guy making this has managed to get the back-pressure similar to the original system, meaning the economy, torque and power are about the same, but you get about a 5kg weight saving and a prettier bike, and honestly that's enough to justify spending the money.

If me and my mate here in Ningbo get round to making centre stands for the TR, I'll be sure to make a few extras which will be offered to other inmates (will be sold at a profit - not cost), but I'll be sure to advertise them in the for sale section ('cause while I might be charitable, I aint a charity).

Nothing I'm in the market for as I hate adding weight to bikes. But good on you if any profit you make is a fair and reasonable estimation of your time above the cost of building them. Although surely some of the most serious work would be done by the customer welding suitable tabs onto the underside of their bike and changing their entire exhaust system to fit it.

[bikerdoc]

Agreed, it looks like a cat, it's in the right place to be a cat so it's a cat. No manufacturer is ever going to increase costs and the weight of their bike by making an extra secondary muffler, it doesn't stand to reason!

Yes, agreed. But it is interesting then if as Wald0 writes his underslung 'box' off the NK is empty.

Most likely it's a psychological effect and rationalization. Any manufacturer is desperate to shift bikes, you shift bikes by offering a competitive price, better fuel economy, lighter weight and more power than the next manufacturer, if gaining power and fuel economy was so easy as slapping on a 500 yuan muffler the manufacturer would have figured it out at R&D stage. One or other maybe, but surely not both power and economy. Now it may be that the guy making this has managed to get the back-pressure similar to the original system, meaning the economy, torque and power are about the same, but you get about a 5kg weight saving and a prettier bike, and honestly that's enough to justify spending the money.

Like I wrote, my seat of the pants impression. Being that I was more than open minded but being a TIC old boy - somewhat fairly cynical, I was not expecting anything other than a better sound. I am surprised that there is a perceptible difference in low-mid range torque. Now it's my perception, and if I wanted to quantify that I'd be doing Dyno runs. But I'm not. There's no way that the manufacturer would be applying this muffler, as it's too loud and would likely fail any dB test. To get EU-III emission compliance they'd have to install the catalytic converter, which would negate the benefits of the said muffler.
I know first hand that CFMoto were looking to other m/c exhaust manufacturers to fabricate a better exhaust system. One can find my posts about this with the 650NK prototype I posted about here on MCM way back.

Nothing I'm in the market for as I hate adding weight to bikes. But good on you if any profit you make is a fair and reasonable estimation of your time above the cost of building them. Although surely some of the most serious work would be done by the customer welding suitable tabs onto the underside of their bike and changing their entire exhaust system to fit it.

Multiple factors come into a businesses and individuals arriving at a price point. Your blessing is appreciated on any profit I and my mate might make. However should the pricing/profit not conform to your expectations, you don't have to buy... and should the pricing be higher than your expectations, then please keep all negative comments or snide remarks to yourself or PM me rather - than revert to your chastising/belittling within this thread.

Fortunately my mate has a pretty good feel for the metal fabrication/CNC business which he's been involved in as a manufacturer for the past 20 years in PRC plus he's a passionate biker as well. We'll be using autoCAD as well... so it wouldn't be just a slap dash approach. Still it's all hypothetical anyway...

As for tabs needed, refer to the first several posts of this thread, where I've made the comment that there appear to be suitable tabs/mount points already for the centre stand near the swing arm at the very bottom of the frame. These are obscured largely by the catalytic converter box and exhaust which might explain why a centre stand is absent. Granted a different muffler would be needed, one that extends the exhaust tube under and out to the RHS and places the muffler alongside the RHS swing arm...

muffler.jpg

[ZMC888]

Multiple factors come into a businesses and individuals arriving at a price point. Your blessing is appreciated on any profit I and my mate might make. However should the pricing/profit not conform to your expectations, you don't have to buy... and should the pricing be higher than your expectations, then please keep all negative comments or snide remarks to yourself or PM me rather - than revert to your chastising/belittling within this thread.

As I have already stated the site owner has given these message boards a classified section. If you want to make components and then profit from their sale it would be nice to have a post in the classified section explaining what the part is, how much it costs and some photos. It could then be stickied there and rather than derailing threads when there is a sales opportunity you could then put in a link.

[bikerdoc]

^Excellent. Certainly will do this when/if we pull the trigger on upgrade components e.g. centre stand.

[Wald0]

Yes, my had only straight pipe and i could see other side
and i did look and in early models of ER6 cat was under the bike before they made collector few mill bigger and installed it there, but they also said that now they have returned to normal cat/muffler combo.

This said my bike was second hand, so nobody can really say that was is removed from there?, at least if i would wanted to remove it from my FZ1 all it would have taken long drill bit and little sweat.

[ZMC888]

Yes, my had only straight pipe and i could see other side
and i did look and in early models of ER6 cat was under the bike before they made collector few mill bigger and installed it there, but they also said that now they have returned to normal cat/muffler combo.

This said my bike was second hand, so nobody can really say that was is removed from there?, at least if i would wanted to remove it from my FZ1 all it would have taken long drill bit and little sweat.

Conjecture: The Chinese factory has a list of the export countries with low emission standards which maybe Vietnam is one, maybe some African, Asian and South American countries are happy with Euro1, 2 or maybe haven't got any rules as yet. There are small amounts of precious metals in a cat, so those countries simply get an empty muffler box with a pipe, so nobody asks too many questions why the bikes look different, yet saving the factory money. Likely?