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#21 Re: The Moriarty MKII, a new project bike for a friend
- Join Date
- Aug 2012
- Location
- United States
- Posts
- 55
10-07-2013, 12:41 PMGood work. This is an interesting transformation.
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#22 Re: The Moriarty MKII, a new project bike for a friend
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#23 Re: The Moriarty MKII, a new project bike for a friend10-09-2013, 02:46 AM
These bloody holidays have delayed Taobao shipments big time... I'm still waiting for my engine/carb/levers to arrive, as well as the custom seat and black powder coated exhaust pipe....
I thought since I'm waiting for stuff that I would at least do a break-down of what the project has cost me so far:
Rubbish donor bike: RMB1600
Okay, now before you all jump up and down screaming "You paid what for that rusty pile of crap?" let me explain...
I have a very good relationship with this very well equipped village bike shop here in Buji, I paid 1600 but made a bit of a deal... the bike was running and being used, but in an awful state... so for 1600 I gave them the running engine back out of the bike, they gave me a new swingarm, new front forks, new rear shocks and a new air-box and toolbox... Also the reason why I chose this beater is that they had recently replaced the tank and side covers and they're brand new.. and black so it saves me having to paint them.
Engine, carb, switches and levers: RMB2300 approx
engine.jpg
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=17985883171
The engine I chose was the Shineray CB250 engine, usually used in CQRs etc, the reason for this is that I've tried five different variants of this 250 engine:
20130213_165102.jpg
Engine: 6 speed GTY (Installed in the Churchill)
Verdict:
Good: Powerful, responsive and a great ride!
Bad: The gear changes are difficult and rubbish, no kick start.. impossible to find neutral when the bike is running
MoriartyMK1.jpg
Engine: 6 speed CBi500 with balance shaft (Installed in the Moriarty MKI)
Verdict:
Good: Smooth, good gear changes and reasonable power
Bad: Because of the balance shaft, you have to make a very complicated front custom engine bracket which is a pain in the arse! it's a 223, not 250 it's just not as powerful as some of the others, you can feel it... No kick start. (also three month wait since they were out of stock).
bodge.jpg
Engine: Zhongshen generic version of this (was installed in my Bodgeworx 250 (CQR)
Verdict:
Good: Powerful, responsive and a great ride!
Bad: No kick start, The clutch was awful, as soon as the engine got a little hot it would start the whole crunchy clutch thing.. I actually replaced the clutch twice... I have a video about that on youtube.
motard.jpg
Engine: The Galaxy 223 version (in my XTR250)
Verdict
Good: Nice and responsive, good low end power where you need it on an offroad bike. (has a kick-start.. but the XTR frame got in the way.. stupid design)
Bad: Too rough for a bike that's going to be ridden on the road... it vibrates... a lot, also gear changes get crap when the engine warms up.
Engine: Shineray 250 (installed in Huizhou Ben's cafe racer custom and two friend's CQRs)
Verdict
Good: Powerful, solid, reliable, great ride! Has a kick-start!
Bad: Only 5 speed...
Out of all of them, this one is the most reliable and also the most cost effective... the engine costs RMB1800 and comes with it's cdi, a kickstarter and a few other bits and bobs... it also has the best pull out of all of the variants I've tried, I always recommend this engine and now three of my friends have this engine in either their project bikes or CQRs.
The "mikuni" PZ30 looks nice and gives the owner a good false sense of quality... it's simple and won't break so that combination works for me...
The reason why I use these engines is because they bolt directly into 125 frames, yes there is a little modification needed, but it' small stuff... sometimes the lower rear engine mount needs a bit ground off to make the engine fit (when I put the cbi500 in, this was the case) and with all of them the top engine mount needs to be modified or replaced, usually a grinder and a drill will sort you out.
Be sure that your donor frame is running the Honda clone engines and not the Suzuki ones, because the Suzuki clones have their electric starter on the front of the engine and so have different mounts etc and it's a pain in the arse... There are basically only two styles of motor, so you can't go wrong.
Other costs are:
Custom seat RMB510
(Yes I'm still buying from those over priced expensive rip off specialty seat guys... because I have no current alternative)
New head bearings and new front disc RMB85
New front tyre and new wiring harness, speedo driver, speedo cable and front brake master cylinder: RMB310
New black powder coated exhaust pipe: RMB180 approx
Custom indicators, speedo cluster, rear lights etc: RMB400 approx
Okay... forseeable costs, I need a new rear rim, a chain and a set of sprockets RMB 300+-
So far build cost:
RMB 5685
Keep in mind that a new 125 clone of these GNs (a real crap quality one) costs about 4800
more news as I progress
- SerpentZA
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#24 Re: The Moriarty MKII, a new project bike for a friend10-09-2013, 04:56 AM
Really nice write up on the various engines SerpentZA. To be fair, it's pretty hard to assess the vibration issue between the different frame styles you have. For instance, the Galaxy TGR & XTR have the same engine, but there's a huge difference in the vibration between the bikes (XTR will put your nuts and hands to sleep pretty quickly). I'm really surprised you can perceive a big difference in power, the Shineray is not a 250, it's a 233 (Bore 69mm Stroke 62.2 = 233cc).
As far as reliability, I would like to see the engine internals at 50,000 kilometers. I don't think I've ever seen a review on MCM of a Chinese made motorcycle after 5 years and 50,000 K. If a bike runs for 5 years/ 50,000K with only regular maintenance, it's safe to say it's probably fairly reliable. As much as I share the view that these simple air cooled singles are easy peasy and should be reliable, my experience shows otherwise, as I've had engine trouble with all the China moto's I've purchased.
Being the electrical genius you are, why do you give a shit about the kick start? It adds weight and complexity to the engine internals and it's not like bump starting a 250 requires much effort.
Keep up the good work and I might be looking for a SerpentZA moto someday!
Cheers!
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#25 Re: The Moriarty MKII, a new project bike for a friend10-09-2013, 05:58 AM
On the pot of the Shineray engine is stamped 249cc, but on the cbi500 and the Galaxy engine it has 223cc (I'll take photos when the new engine arrives, perhaps they're misrepresenting?).
We setup a drag race between the CBi500, the Shineray and my Qingqi, the Shineray was the quickest off the mark (okay it's not really fair since it was in the lightest frame with the lightest rider), the qingqi overtook it due to the longer gearing and the cbi500 eventually caught up, but the initial off the line pull is substantially better than all of the other similar engines I've tried.
A direct comparison would be between the GTY 6 speed and the Shineray as they were both in the same sort of frame (the Churchill and Ben's cafe), I built both bikes (well I helped the Huizhou crew build thiers) and so they were mostly the same, the Shineray engine had a much better pull, once again probably due to different gearing inside the engine, the Shineray only having 5 gears... but still it really has a good amount of grunt.. and it's cheaper too.
Yes, this is true, I'm basing my reliability statements on the fact that Ben's bike and The Pope's CQR both have been ridden by riders who have little or no knowledge about bike maintenance, left out in the rain and mud and still never fail to start and run, the Cbi500 had a spark-plug explode (not the engine's fault, but it's the plug that came with the engine), The GTY has horrible gear changing issues and they keep getting worse and the Zhongshen has awful clutch problems. The three Shineray engines that are knocking about our crew have been consistently good, not one of them has any quirks or issues, all run, all are strong and all have taken a beating (although I think the furthest any of them have gone is about 5000kms +- )
Hahaha, thanks man... well I'll give you a prime example:
During the holidays a group of us went riding down to the Xunliao peninsula, we were doing a lot of stopping at the side of the road to take photos, chill out etc... Ben's bike battery failed on the beach (just a rubbish cheap battery) imagine push starting a bike in soft beach sand... The rest of the trip it wasn't an issue, wherever we stopped it was easy for him to just hop on, give it a kick and ride off... Imagine having to push start your bike every time you stopped for a two day sight-seeing bike ride (not fun). I love the added peace of mind having a kick starter.
I just can't wait for the parts to arrive, the new exhaust arrived this morning... now just the bloody engine and I can make some real progress!
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#26 Re: The Moriarty MKII, a new project bike for a friend10-09-2013, 06:40 AM
If you look at the taobao add, the specs for the engine say 250(ml)-缸体散热片处有标注 (Google Trans = The cylinder body radiator fin place has labelling) but further down in the specs:
缸径与行程 69×62.2 Pretty sure that equals 233cc, which is still 10 more than the Galaxy 223. I would cut them some slack on misrepresenting it as a 250, as every engine manufacturer in the world rounds up.
Chengdu ---> Dongguan on the old QingQi 200 (The Whore as we lovingly called her before you sold her off for your CB400), stator shit the bed and killed the battery, kick start would have been great until I crashed and fractured my ankle and had to bump start it at every stop which was exacerbated by the fact that the bike couldn't be put in neutral while running, so I ended up stalling umpteen times along the way. Finally couldn't take it any more so I just started buying batteries every 4 hours until I got home. Good times! I guess you're right that a kickstarter brings piece of mind, sure would be nice to have piece of mind from reliability instead.
Cheers!
ChinaV
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#27 Re: The Moriarty MKII, a new project bike for a friend10-09-2013, 07:00 AM
switch to a pair of 16 inch wheels to lower the center gravity?
同志仍需努力
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#28 Re: The Moriarty MKII, a new project bike for a friend10-09-2013, 01:48 PM
The new engine has arrived!!! The bike should be running by early tomorrow afternoon!
engine1.jpg
As promised to ChinaV, here's a picture of the Pot saying it's a 250...
engine2.jpg
I hold in my hands the power of many horses!
engine3.jpg
According to a sticker on the bike, it has Shell lubricants inside... Hmm I wonder if that's true?? I'll be changing it anyway (never run an engine with the oil from the factory, they usually put in some cheap crap just to fire it up once for a test.. also they often don't put enough in).
engine4.jpg
Here are all the other parts I ordered from the same shop (the bodgeworx guys)... I always order my engines and niggly bits from them, they're a little over priced but they always deliver fast and so far the goods have arrived unscathed...
engine5.jpg
I'd like you to pay attention to the cheap switches 28RMB... those are the same as on the Shineray X5... c'mon Shineray... make your own stuff... don't use this cheap generic nonsense... it doesn't inspire confidence!
Tomorrow morning I'm going to figure out how to haul all this crap to where I'm keeping the bike... and then ride the bugger home :)
- SerpentZA (youtube.com/serpentza)
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#29 Re: The Moriarty MKII, a new project bike for a friend
- Join Date
- Nov 2010
- Location
- Beijing
- Posts
- 407
10-10-2013, 12:41 AMThat's the X2 switch, I was told the X5 switch doesn't even have the index finger button for flashing high beam!
Kawasaki Versys 650
Shineray X2
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#30 Re: The Moriarty MKII, a new project bike for a friend10-10-2013, 08:00 AM
There are positives and negatives to building a bike on the street... mainly negatives, pikey onlookers who keep interfering and trying to give you lame advice which is all crap and meaningless, buggers who keep playing with your bike while you're working on it... and today a wanker who bumped over my carefully placed petrol tank and side covers... scratching them on the concrete floor....
Anyway... apart from almost dying from the heat today, I managed to get the following done:
fit1.jpg
I've mentioned before... A car jack makes this soooo much easier, no more sitting cross legged on the floor balancing engines on my knee :P
fit2.jpg
I had to grind off a little of this right lower side rear engine mount or the engine wouldn't fit, not a big deal, just a little off the top, smooth off and spray paint to prevent rust (it's not going to affect the strength of the mount).
fit3.jpg
I used all new engine mount bolts that I got from the bodgeworx guys off of Tabao... first slide the bolts through starting with the rear upper mount...
fit4.jpg
next come the front mounts, get them all in the tighten the shit out of them (you don't want these coming loose).
fit5.jpg
Okay, so the engine is in place... now to modify the upper engine mount... this is a chore... I did it with a drill, but a drill press would be ideal..
- continued shortly
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