Why so few high-capacity Chinese bikes available?

[Chriss]

Hi,

New to this site and to the motorcycling world. Doing some research into the Chinese motorcycling manufactures for my first bike and I can help myself but wonder as to why there are so few bikes with more than 250cc. Lack of demand? Any particular reason for it? Thanks.

[ZMC888]

The Chinese government decided many years ago that they really rather like cars, and decided to make the car industry the a pillar of Chinese (unsustainable) economic growth. Motorcycles were regarded as an irritant industry, competing for resources and road space.

People who work in the motorcycle industry in China are generally just interested in money, they have mostly no love for bikes, possibly the way you might think of a single cylinder generator, and consequently little idea what consumers want and no innovation or imagination to make anything original, much preferring a numbers game. 'We exported XXXXX units last year so we are the biggest manufacturer in China'. The fact that they made thousands of low grade super-cheap Honda based 125cc copy bikes was not relevant.

However as Chinese companies buy struggling western brands, and powerful western brands start more joint ventures in China to cut costs, the shop floor quality of the bikes has and will continue to increase, so that most likely in ten years you'll really see little difference between the better Chinese bikes and Japanese made bikes. With a higher level of manufacturing larger engines are now possible and many have realized the 'entry level mid sized bike sector' from 250cc-650cc is a lucrative market for domestic and developing country 'leisure hobbyists' to recent test passers in Europe, Australia and America.

About local attitudes and demand, who an tell?

[PeteZ]

Another thing is that a huge number of first-, second-, and third-tier cities in China have motorcycle restrictions or outright bans. As the overwhelming majority of China's wealthy citizens live in urban areas, this has killed off a large portion of the market for high-capacity bikes.

[englishman in china]

All of the above and also the fact that most Chinese companies don't have the technical nous to build a 'big bike' of adequate quality.This example is apparent with Shineray who have been developing (and even advertising) their 400cc displacement bikes for over a year, they are still no where near ready for sale.

[ZMC888]

All of the above and also the fact that most Chinese companies don't have the technical nous to build a 'big bike' of adequate quality.This example is apparent with Shineray who have been developing (and even advertising) their 400cc displacement bikes for over a year, they are still no where near ready for sale.

True, but this isn't the biggest stumbling block. Most Chinese companies just plain don't have the desire to build big bikes. This is purely conjecture, but having visited India, Thailand, Italy and being from the UK I know that companies in those countries can easily find employees with a genuine passion and interest in motorcycles.

Sure, there is an underground motorcycle fan group in China, but seriously they must make up less than 0.2% of the adult population and chances are those bike fans would have no power or influence if they were employed in a motorcycle company and most of the employees would be there for the money through some kind of nepotism or connections. In my opinion it's pretty hard to bolt together a good motorcycle if you are dreaming about being a car owner. I'll wager if you look at the number of over 400cc engines manufactured in China the massive majority are put in quad bikes, side by sides etc.

[miguelitro]

Another thing to be aware of is that the destination countries such as Ecuador have much higher import duties and taxes on bikes over 250cc making bigger bikes unaffordable for those who buy china bikes. If you can afford an expensive china bike you just buy a Jap bike.
Mike

[MJH]

Import duty on motorcycles from China to Ecuador is 30% plus a 12% VAT plus 0.05% FodInfa tax (children development fund) regardless of displacement as it is the same rate for all sizes. I do not know where you are getting your information from Miguel but it is not accurate.


http://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/.../ecuador_e.htm

[miguelitro]

Interesting. I know we pay higher reg fees and I thought an extra tax on bigger bikes.
I stand corrected.
Mike

[MJH]

Why would you want an high capacity Chinese made motorcycle…..the industry is primarily built to provide low cost transportation, it actually was over built in that.


Since it is overbuilt it will not grow in production, it cannot, it will loose production.


The industry manufactures perpetually and has slowed its rate for the past years, some of the manufactures are developing larger displacement models. However I would not believe that any are very profitable doing so. I do not believe that the industry is profitable at all overall.


The leader in offering larger displacements is Zhejiang Qianjiang and in order for them to do that, they bought technology, they bought Benelli and have not recovered the investment yet. They have actually borrowed more to keep the dream alive. Some say they bought it twice, they keep spending and are not profitable. They have revenue and costs and the difference in the bottom line is still negative. That is not so unusual and many operate in the red until they can manage to get it all correct.


There are others and you could say they are driven to do it, that being build larger displacement models but those that are and have been still manufacture transportation models. Even CFMOTO has not let go of making a 150cc model. Others have moved on to add Automobiles or augmented their manufacturing base to include autos and small trucks. Xinyuan and Yinxiang both have, could say they are the most Honda like but thats a stretch in my opinion. I would say any analogy between the Japanese motorcycle development and the Chinese in considering their histories, is ill-founded, likely more racist then anything. So I never make that comparison its just another manipulation in logic when its made. Copying and reverse engineering was not in the Japanese nomenclature, not to any significant degree as it is in China. The Japanese pioneered process control and with low cost material. The Chinese lie about having the control and do not care, they do it all cheap and flood markets through a ridiculous number of channels. They do best under the control of clients as an OEM and with foreign management. In that you could see a foreign company manufacture in china, larger displacement motorcycles, but what is the advantage when the actual real sales of such are small in China. They are growing in number and at high rates…but then selling one and then making that two sold is a one hundred percent increase in sales, nice value to throw around a one hundred percent growth rate. But its not significant enough is it. Looking at QJ is and in that many analyst are not so bullish.


Logic says that a slow boat on a fast track…..well I am sure you can all see what is happening behind the satin once silk curtain?

[ZMC888]

Very insightful MJH.

Personally I see the future of Chinese motorcycle manufacture within the context of joint ventures. The reason why Qian Jiang have and are failing is because Chinese bosses are calling the shots, yet the brains are in Italy and lie in a fairly small unprofitable company.

The 125 market has been fairly successful because it's a market that wants cheap bikes and mostly the people who buy them often aren't well informed.

You are correct that there is this pet theory amongst motorcycle journalists in the west that China's motorcycle market is some mirror of the Japanese in the late 60's or early 70's. It's not for so manyreasons already covered.

The future lies in joint venture production. This is clear from CFMOTO and KTM, Locin and BMW and so on, the Chinese manufacturers who think they can go alone surely will ultimately fail with bike production, surely with big bikes.