Adventure Motorcycle Magazine Subscribe Now

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 16
  1. #1 Survey on Electric Motorcycles 
    C-Moto Not-so-Noob branng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Beijing
    Posts
    26
    Fellow MCMers,

    An announcement: I am teaming up with a small team of expat motorcycle/electric vehicle enthusiasts here in Beijing to seriously investigate the feasibility of designing and manufacturing a line of proper electric motorcycles here in China.

    As part of the requisite R&D process in the run-up to this, we’d like to find out more about riding habits of various demographic groups here in China including the expat motorcycling community. Given that MCM is itself, a tightly knit community of expat motorcyclists in China, I felt it’d be an appropriate venue to conduct such a survey (below), to find out more about the viability of this idea.

    I would be most grateful if you had 5 minutes of time to spare, to share your thoughts and views on the notion of a small, foreign-run designing and manufacturing startup developing and selling electric motorcycles domestically here in China, through the below survey. Just copy the below responses and embolden/underline your response.

    Thanks a million for your time, thoughts, suggestions and ideas.

    Feel free to ping me with a PM if you have any questions.

    -----

    1. Do you ride a motorcycle?
    Yes, I currently do
    I used to, but not at the moment
    I have not, but am interested in doing so
    No

    2. Do you own/have you owned an electric bike/electric scooter/electric motorcycle?
    Yes
    No

    3. If you have never owned an electric bike/scooter/motorcycle, would you ever consider riding an electric motorcycle?
    Yes, definitely
    I would think about it
    No

    4. And if no, why not?
    Limited range
    Cheap image
    Slow performance
    Legalities
    Cost
    Visceral/emotional thrill (sound, vibrations, working a gearbox etc.)
    None of the above

    5. What ‘style’ of motorcycle do you prefer?
    Sport
    Naked Street Fighter
    Adventure
    Scooter

    6. If you have a bike, what do you mainly use it for?
    Commuting
    Leisure

    7. What level of performance would you deem “acceptable” to you?
    50cc
    150cc
    250cc
    400cc
    600cc
    1000cc+

    8. What amount of storage do you require on a motorcycle?
    None
    Small top box
    Large top box
    Large top box & small side boxes
    Large top box & large side boxes

    9. If you were to ride an electric motorcycle, what range would you require out of it on a single charge (to cover 95% of your riding scenarios)?
    Under 25km
    25 - 50km
    50 - 75km
    75 - 100km
    100 - 150km
    Over 150km

    10. As an electric, two-wheeled vehicle, an electric motorcycle technically does not require a motorcycle plate (although one could argue that it requires an electric bicycle plate). As such, the total on-the-road cost of the vehicle is the cost of the vehicle only i.e. no plating costs. Given this, if you were to buy an electric motorcycle which met your performance and practicality requirements, where would you set your budget?
    Under RMB10K
    RMB 10 - 30K
    RMB 30 - 50K
    RMB 50 - 70K
    RMB 70 - 100K
    Over RMB100K

    11. If something on the electric motorcycle requires repair/replacement, would you be able and/or willing to repair/replace the component as an individual?
    Yes, able and willing
    Yes, able but not willing
    No

    12. Any other comments/suggestions/feedback?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #2 Re: Survey on Electric Motorcycles 
    Senior C-Moto Guru ZMC888's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Zibo, Shandong - Sometimes SW England
    Posts
    2,239
    1. Do you ride a motorcycle?
    Yes, I currently do

    2. Do you own/have you owned an electric bike/electric scooter/electric motorcycle?
    No

    3. If you have never owned an electric bike/scooter/motorcycle, would you ever consider riding an electric motorcycle?
    I would think about it depending on power or range.

    4. And if no, why not?
    50-100 kw of power and 200-400km range before interested in buying, 15KW and 100 km of range before trying.

    5. What ‘style’ of motorcycle do you prefer?
    Sport or Naked Street Fighter or dirt bike

    6. If you have a bike, what do you mainly use it for?
    Leisure

    7. What level of performance would you deem “acceptable” to you?
    250cc-1000cc+ Ideally 400cc+

    8. What amount of storage do you require on a motorcycle?
    None

    9. If you were to ride an electric motorcycle, what range would you require out of it on a single charge (to cover 95% of your riding scenarios)?
    Over 150km to even consider owning 100 kilometers to test

    10. As an electric, two-wheeled vehicle, an electric motorcycle technically does not require a motorcycle plate (although one could argue that it requires an electric bicycle plate). As such, the total on-the-road cost of the vehicle is the cost of the vehicle only i.e. no plating costs. Given this, if you were to buy an electric motorcycle which met your performance and practicality requirements, where would you set your budget?
    Depends entirely on performance, range suspension and brake quality etc. Also it does need a plate and motorcycle license if over a certain wattage (200w?) and if it's under 200w forget it!

    11. If something on the electric motorcycle requires repair/replacement, would you be able and/or willing to repair/replace the component as an individual?
    Yes, able and willing

    12. Any other comments/suggestions/feedback?
    I would be happy to try any electric motorcycle with over 15KW of power and over 100km of range if the tires, brakes and suspension were of a good quality and be some 'loaned' kind of 'beta' tester for free and give regular feedback. Not interested in buying anything electric at this stage unless proven to be an excellent vehicle or 600cc type power and a fairly reasonable price. This is because I'm perfectly happy with my internal combustion bike, but would like to see any green commerce or foreign business succeed.

    Understand me clearly. I prefer bicycles for all journeys under 20 kilometers. I would never be interested in any powered vehicle that had a range less than this. As a cyclist I can probably put out max 300W-400W, I would never be interested in a vehicle than put out less than this. My motorcycle can put out at little over 50KW, I would need 30KW of power for me to be interested in any electric road bike to buy as a product. However, if it's a dirt bike then a lightweight bike that put out 10KW and had a 50km range would be acceptable.

    If you think that an electric motorcycle is a clever way to subvert the law and be legal everywhere without a plate especially inside the 4th ring road in Beijing or central Shanghai, sadly you'll be disappointed as once you get over 5KW you'll be in motorcycle territory, registration, insurance and licensing. Probably nearly everywhere in the world, not just in China.

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by ZMC888; 12-03-2013 at 03:42 PM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #3 Re: Survey on Electric Motorcycles 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    US
    Posts
    5,709
    Could ask if the Zero line was available at current US prices would you be interested in purchasing one.
    That would make some assumptions in quality, however support is an issue, one of the largest problems in China is that of support. Then is that support, even if top notch, another assumption, enduring? Will the bikes be funded well and can it make it or will you end up with a product that eventually is unsupported.

    These bikes are novel for sure however the price is not, 17k is not a small price to pay for what is limited use.



    My guess is that the people at Zero and others have some patented technology and have invested quite a bit of R&D and may not have any interests in manufacturing outside the USA? But could they be convinced to set up in China or another country?


    I think the market in china is as limited for electric motorcycles as it is for combustion powered ones. Maybe even more so? However if the Zero line was offered in select markets in China and for half the retail prices in the USA would anyone buy one? Then is it even economically feasible to make that happen.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #4 Re: Survey on Electric Motorcycles 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    US
    Posts
    5,709
    They are limited and expensive, Brammo I believe are better or at least higher performance, you could repeat that same above scenario with their offering. What price would draw you in, you would really limit you customer base without top notch support with a relatively new technology.
    I see these having limited support by region and thats allot to ask for so much of an investment.


    If you were to entice some investors as in seek out venture capitalist, you would need to have something in the form of a letter of intent, in that a possible interest of an actual manufacturer or your own working models.


    These start up will not likely take on China, they know that they cannot defend their rights their, they do not have the capital of say Ford or GM to do battle. It is not impossible to defend your product in China but can be expensive if you are not huge and have power it may be simply impossible. You may get a good share at first but eventually it will appear as others and eventually take it all back. In the end you still can endure but with a smaller share. The way they win is in superior servicing and quality control, the systems the products are brought to the market in.


    I would say that Zero and Brammo could manufacture in China and if they had a great partner sell many.
    I think that the Chinese would embrace what is cleaner and if respected pay a good price, but simply not what they sell for in the USA and for very limited numbers. The numbers would maybe be more then in the USA but not likely at such very high prices, do to the limited functionality, if you think you can out do these companies then go for it….they may be limited by costs here.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #5 Re: Survey on Electric Motorcycles 
    C-Moto Not-so-Noob
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Shanghai
    Posts
    22
    1. Do you ride a motorcycle?
    Yes, I do

    2. Do you own/have you owned an electric bike/electric scooter/electric motorcycle?
    Yes

    5. What ‘style’ of motorcycle do you prefer?
    Naked Street Fighter (for Leisure)
    Scooter (for Urban Commuting in China)

    6. If you have a bike, what do you mainly use it for?
    Commuting

    7. What level of performance would you deem “acceptable” to you?
    150cc (commuting)
    600cc (leisure)

    8. What amount of storage do you require on a motorcycle?
    None (leisure)
    Large top box or box under the seat(commuting)

    9. If you were to ride an electric motorcycle, what range would you require out of it on a single charge (to cover 95% of your riding scenarios)?
    50 - 75km (commuting)
    Over 150km (leisure)

    10. As an electric, two-wheeled vehicle, an electric motorcycle technically does not require a motorcycle plate (although one could argue that it requires an electric bicycle plate). As such, the total on-the-road cost of the vehicle is the cost of the vehicle only i.e. no plating costs. Given this, if you were to buy an electric motorcycle which met your performance and practicality requirements, where would you set your budget?

    Under RMB10K (commuting: low cost, high practicality, good design)


    11. If something on the electric motorcycle requires repair/replacement, would you be able and/or willing to repair/replace the component as an individual?
    Willing but not able

    12. Any other comments/suggestions/feedback?
    I wouldn't consider buying an electric motorcycle for leisure purposes simply because I know that such a machine, with minimum "fun" requirements, cannot be built. Brammo, Zero, Mission Motorcycles are building interesting machines that DO NOT satisfy my basic mileage requirements for leisure purposes (touring). And the prices, my god. However, I would consider, for commuting purposes, upgrading to a fun little machine with interesting design and functional features, as an upgrade from my present china-mada e-scooter. And there I would set my budget around 5000 RMB (definitely below 10'000 - otherwise I am happy with the present crappychinascooter). But that's just me!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #6 Re: Survey on Electric Motorcycles 
    C-Moto Not-so-Noob branng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Beijing
    Posts
    26
    Thanks all for the responses so far. And thanks also to MJH for the usual well-considered and extremely thorough analysis.

    On Brammo and Zero, and other "high-profile" electric motorcycle companies: they make brilliant products which satisfy the needs and wants of the demographics which they target. They have poured in significant amounts of time and money in making their products what they are today. But they had to start somewhere. There was a time when Zero's motorcycles (the company which began as a motorcycle company; Brammo started off by making the Ariel Atom for the US; the experience and skills they had developed, and the team they had built for the Atom project meant their first motorcycle - the Enertia - was a fairly refined product) weren't far off electric mountain bikes (as in bicycles). Excellent products as they are today, it's hard to ignore the fact that Zeros and Brammos are still priced for early adopters.

    We are not trying to compete in that market segment, which we think, is already fairly saturated - given the still relatively small market for high-performance electric motorcycles. Our model will - and without committing to details for now - require us to develop a product/products for which the mass market will consider 'reasonable' - in all senses of the word. And product/products which represent great value for customers. At the same time, we believe that we have a sustainable model which isn't singularly reliant on China for success (although succeeding in China would help, significantly so!).

    Of course, the specifics of this project can and almost certainly will go through iterations. Our objective is to minimise the number of such iterations before finding one which "works" and part of that involves asking the right questions to the market we hope service. And so, we turn to you guys. What do you want us to make? How would you use what we make, if at all? etc. These are all questions to which we, on our side, have assumptive answers. But to create a business delivers products and/or services, we need to cross-reference our assumptions with your responses at multiple levels, on multiple instances to make sure that we are as 'synced-up' with reality as we think we are.

    As such, your responses on this survey are extremely important to us. And simply put, the more, the merrier.

    And, just a teaser... (my way of saying, THANK YOU! )

    IMG_9303 - Version 2.jpg
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #7 Re: Survey on Electric Motorcycles 
    C-Moto Not-so-Noob
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Beijing
    Posts
    11
    1. Do you ride a motorcycle?
    I used to, but not at the moment


    2. Do you own/have you owned an electric bike/electric scooter/electric motorcycle?
    Yes


    3. If you have never owned an electric bike/scooter/motorcycle, would you ever consider riding an electric motorcycle?
    n/a

    4. And if no, why not?
    None of the above

    5. What ‘style’ of motorcycle do you prefer?
    Naked Street Fighter


    6. If you have a bike, what do you mainly use it for?
    Commuting

    7. What level of performance would you deem “acceptable” to you?
    250cc


    8. What amount of storage do you require on a motorcycle?
    Large top box & small side boxes


    9. If you were to ride an electric motorcycle, what range would you require out of it on a single charge (to cover 95% of your riding scenarios)?
    75 - 100km


    10. As an electric, two-wheeled vehicle, an electric motorcycle technically does not require a motorcycle plate (although one could argue that it requires an electric bicycle plate). As such, the total on-the-road cost of the vehicle is the cost of the vehicle only i.e. no plating costs. Given this, if you were to buy an electric motorcycle which met your performance and practicality requirements, where would you set your budget?
    RMB 10 - 30K


    11. If something on the electric motorcycle requires repair/replacement, would you be able and/or willing to repair/replace the component as an individual?
    Yes, able and willing


    12. Any other comments/suggestions/feedback?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #8 Re: Survey on Electric Motorcycles 
    C-Moto Regular
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    57
    1. Do you ride a motorcycle?
    Yes, I currently do

    2. Do you own/have you owned an electric bike/electric scooter/electric motorcycle?
    No

    3. If you have never owned an electric bike/scooter/motorcycle, would you ever consider riding an electric motorcycle?
    Yes, definitely

    4. And if no, why not?
    Limited range

    5. What ‘style’ of motorcycle do you prefer?
    Adventure

    6. If you have a bike, what do you mainly use it for?
    Commuting

    7. What level of performance would you deem “acceptable” to you?
    250cc

    8. What amount of storage do you require on a motorcycle?
    None

    9. If you were to ride an electric motorcycle, what range would you require out of it on a single charge (to cover 95% of your riding scenarios)?
    Over 150km

    10. As an electric, two-wheeled vehicle, an electric motorcycle technically does not require a motorcycle plate (although one could argue that it requires an electric bicycle plate). As such, the total on-the-road cost of the vehicle is the cost of the vehicle only i.e. no plating costs. Given this, if you were to buy an electric motorcycle which met your performance and practicality requirements, where would you set your budget?
    Under RMB10K
    RMB 10 - 30K
    RMB 30 - 50K

    11. If something on the electric motorcycle requires repair/replacement, would you be able and/or willing to repair/replace the component as an individual?
    Yes, able and willing

    12. Any other comments/suggestions/feedback?
    Batteries are too expensive to make them affordable based on the criteria people want.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #9 Re: Survey on Electric Motorcycles 
    C-Moto Noob sonicgroove's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Shanghai
    Posts
    5
    Hi Branng,

    Your project sounds very good. I assume you have dig into the regulations and the trends for the Chinese market.
    As of today, most of those scooter/moped like electric bike seems to actually be illegal according to regulations (at least in Shanghai) due to weight and speed and as a result cannot register and get the electric plate. So far it seems government has been very loose on enforcing those regulations except for a few days a year.

    But, as everything in China, you can expect this to change very quickly either on the enforcement side or regulation side and need to make sure your business model (or at least the Chinese part of it) takes this into account. There will be some serious threat to many electrical bike makers but certainly bigger opportunity arising as well.

    Just my $0.02 of the day.

    Keep us posted on your progress, best of luck!

    Guillaume
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #10 Re: Survey on Electric Motorcycles 
    C-Moto Noob sonicgroove's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Shanghai
    Posts
    5
    1. Do you ride a motorcycle?
    Yes, I currently do

    2. Do you own/have you owned an electric bike/electric scooter/electric motorcycle?
    Yes

    5. What ‘style’ of motorcycle do you prefer?
    Scooter for city commute
    adventure for leisure

    6. If you have a bike, what do you mainly use it for?
    Commuting
    Leisure

    7. What level of performance would you deem “acceptable” to you?
    50cc - 150cc for commute
    250cc - 400cc for adventure


    8. What amount of storage do you require on a motorcycle?
    None
    Small top box

    9. If you were to ride an electric motorcycle, what range would you require out of it on a single charge (to cover 95% of your riding scenarios)?
    75 - 100km for commute
    Over 150km for adventure

    10. As an electric, two-wheeled vehicle, an electric motorcycle technically does not require a motorcycle plate (although one could argue that it requires an electric bicycle plate). As such, the total on-the-road cost of the vehicle is the cost of the vehicle only i.e. no plating costs. Given this, if you were to buy an electric motorcycle which met your performance and practicality requirements, where would you set your budget?
    Under RMB10K for commute
    RMB 10 - 30K for leisure

    11. If something on the electric motorcycle requires repair/replacement, would you be able and/or willing to repair/replace the component as an individual?
    No

    12. Any other comments/suggestions/feedback?
    Reply With Quote  
     

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Electric start problems
    By bailey123123 in forum Maintenance
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 08-03-2012, 03:27 PM
  2. KTM Electric Freeride Bikes
    By richardktm in forum Dirt n' Dual-Sport
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-07-2012, 02:55 AM
  3. Hong Kong Gov't Switches to Brammo Electric Motorcycles
    By bikerdoc in forum Industry News and Moto Talk
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11-12-2011, 08:26 PM
  4. Electric Lifan 200 III (eMoto)
    By Jim in forum Street
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-07-2010, 01:23 PM
  5. pulse 125 gy died no electric!
    By Dan in forum Maintenance
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-22-2010, 04:56 PM
Tags for this Thread

View Tag Cloud

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •