Other people registering plates for you

[njbrwn]

Hey all,

Does anyone have experience with buying and then re-selling a bike with plates registered in someone elses name? I know a lot of people in Beijing have other people/shops register B's because foreigners can only register A's. Where I live, to get plates on I'd have to do it in the neighboring county because motorcycles aren't allowed in the city proper (even though they're everywhere).
So my question is, if I get a plate registered by someone else, how does it work out if I need to sell that bike? Do they need to be there/prove they agree? Also, what legal rights do they have over the bike/plate? The person I have now to help me is a friend of a friend, so I just wanted to make sure before I went through with anything.

Thanks

[bikerdoc]

The person registered legally on the documents (vehicle registration certificate) is essentially the person who is expected to be there to present their ID card/passport etc. Usually what happens for those places where a real person/entity steps up to the plate to facilitate ownership etc. is that a document is drawn up between that person/entity that states that the other non-regsitered party is allowed use or is the owner of the bike etc. It can and does get complicated in some scenarios. These types of 'arrangements' can be anything but straight forward, as like most things in PRC, not everything is as it seems. One has to be pretty trusting or selective about who they deal with given that it's very easy to be taken advantage of.
If it's at all possible, attempt to have any vehicle licensed in your own name, since it makes ownership easier to prove and dealing with insurance, claims or otherwise far easier. Even if one has to make a short term agreement in another area/location just so as one can get a license plate, DL etc.

[SabineHartmann]

my first scooter was registered in the name of the wife of the seller, after 1 year that shop was gone. I was very lucky to sell the scooter to a Chinese guy who did not care at all. otherwise I would still own that scooter.
there is a common trick to register the bike in your name if you live in a " no bike area": for a very short time, 1 week(?), you register in an outside location. mostly with the help of the seller. do all the paperwork and register back to your real location. now, we are in a kind of grey zone. if the police stops you close to your home, with a legal bike from another location, shut your mouth and pay the 100 -200 Yuan fine.
what ever you decide, what ever the future will bring, it is always better to be the real owner/registered, legal owner of the bike.
the easy way mostly ended in the most expensive way

[Lao Jia Hou]

...foreigners can only register A's.

In Beijing, it depends on your registered residency location. If your residency is inside one of the 6 major districts, you need to get an A plate, regardless of whether you are Chinese or a foreigner. Probably 99% of the foreigners within Beijing live in one of these 6 districts. If, however, your residency registration is in Pinggu, Hairou, Changping, etc., you can get a B plate, regardless of whether you are Chinese or a foreigner.

So my question is, if I get a plate registered by someone else, how does it work out if I need to sell that bike?

Selling a legally registered B-plated bike is as easy as writing out a Bill of Sale between the two parties. There is no transfer of registered ownership unless the buyer is outside the 6 major districts.

Do they need to be there/prove they agree?

It really depends on how the bike is registered, and to whom. But in almost all of the cases, no, they do not need to be there. If the seller is not the original "possessor" of the bike, the seller should be able to prove that he/she bought the bike from the original owner (whose name will be in the Bliue Book).

Also, what legal rights do they have over the bike/plate?

If you have a proper Bill of Sale, they have no legal claim on the bike.

The person I have now to help me is a friend of a friend, so I just wanted to make sure before I went through with anything.

Thanks

A Beijing B-plate registration is very strange to foreigners because in virtually every developed country, ownership is proven by registration. This is not so in Beijing. If you want to more fully understand how it is done, I would suggest you visit one of the large, reputable, high-volume dealers in Beijing. Two come to mind - Qili Motors and Dadihengtang. They do this stuff day-in, day-out, and can fully explain how it is done, why it is done, and what happens with "ownership" and "registration".

Stay far, far away from the little shops - in my experience, you know they are lying every time they open their mouths.

If it is private sale, and you have some concerns, take the bike to one of the aforementioed shops, give them a couple hundred rmb, and have them supervise the sale.

Good luck

[ShuBen]

@LJH: related to B plates..... that means the owner A sells his legal bike and afterwards the buyer B rides with a blue book where the sellers name A is still in??

[njbrwn]

awesome, thanks everyone for the replies. You mention Qili Motors and Dadihengtang, has anyone had experience with Beijing Riders? The name seems to come up on these forums a lot so I assume they'd be alright too?

Sabine, i'm a bit unclear on the process you're talking about. I live in a "no motorcycle zone" so you're saying I can register it in the neighboring county, and then transfer it back to the district I live in and put plates on it?

[SabineHartmann]

"You!!!" need to take a temporary residence in a zone where bikes are allowed. there the bike is registered and plated. when it is done, you register yourself back to your real place of living. bike and plates keep their "residence" documents.

[Lao Jia Hou]

@LJH: related to B plates..... that means the owner A sells his legal bike and afterwards the buyer B rides with a blue book where the sellers name A is still in??

There are 2 types of B plates: public and private. This is terminology commonly used by the Chinese public. It is not official terminology. To government, there is only one type of B plate.

The "private" B-plate is where the plate is registered to an individual who is also the owner/rider. A "private" B-plate will have the individual owner/rider name in all the documents. This individual must reside in an allowable B-plate district (i.e., outside the six major districts) ... either by having his hukou in an external district, or a >6 month temporary residence permit in an external district. When this particular owner wishes to sell his bike, he most probably will want to sell it to someone else who also lives in one of the allowable, external districts (i.e., outside the six major districts). The buyer will similarly need to prove allowable, external residency. If the seller is willing to sell his B-plated bike to someone within the six districts, he has two options:

1) Keep the bike registered in his own name, and draw up documents to transfer ownership/responsibility to the buyer (not the best option); or,
2) Use an agent/reputable dealer to transfer the bike into a company name, who is registered in an external district (the B-plate then becomes known as a "public" B-plate).

The "public" B-plate is where the plate is registered to a company that "does it business" in an allowable, external district. This is what the agents/reputable dealers do. The majority of the dealers' B-plate sales are done to people who live within the six major districts. When you buy a new bike from the dealer, the dealer will use an agent to register the bike in a company name AND also prepare documents that show you are the actual owner, bearing all responsibility for the bike/plate (e.g., camera fines, etc). When the "owner" of a public B-plate sells the bike, the buyer has two options:

1) Keep the bike registered in the public company. In this case, only a Bill of Sale is necessary, although the "responsibility" document should also be redrafted; or,
2) Transfer the bike from the public company into his own name, assuming the buyer is eligible for a private B-plate.

If you look through the used bike advertisements you will see reference to whether the B-plate is "public" or "private" households. The vast majority are public B-plates.

There are many advantages of public B-plates. Aside from getting around the six district requirement for A plates, it also allows people with less than 6 month residency permits to buy a bike. It is not only foreigners who get <6 month residency registrations ... many Chinese also get their own Beijing Temporary Residency permits for under 6 months (i.e., their hukou is in some other city).

For reference, it is the A plates which are no longer issued (hence, the very high prices from the secondary market). B plates are still being issued. Very roughly, there are approximately 110,000 motorcycle registrations in Beijing: about 20,000 A-plates, and 90,000 B-plates. Of the 90,000 B-plates, very rough estimates are that approximately 60,000 are public. There are not many public A-plates, but they do exist (again, because of residency restrictions). I've heard estimates that there are about 2,000 public A plates.

Finally, in China, possession is 9/10ths of the ownership law. Vis a vis ... all the illegal bikes.

Confusing? Your damn rights it is confusing. Took me years to figure it all out but, then again, I am a foreigner who was somewhat unfamiliar of a culture of "fixes". I could go on and on and on about the strange nuances about plating bikes in Beijing, but most people find it very boring and a very messy can-of-worms full of "it depends". Frankly, it is best to just get a reputable agent and pay the few hundred rmb to have everything done for you.

[Lao Jia Hou]

"You!!!" need to take a temporary residence in a zone where bikes are allowed. there the bike is registered and plated. when it is done, you register yourself back to your real place of living. bike and plates keep their "residence" documents.

Not true in Beijing.

Perhaps this works elsewhere in China but, speaking from experience, it will certainly not work in Beijing.

[Lao Jia Hou]

... anyone had experience with Beijing Riders?

Beijing Riders (BR) is like taobao shopper - it is a language interface between you and the dealerships. It has widely mixed reviews.

If possible, have a Chinese friend accompany you to a reputable dealer to act as a translator. Less expensive, fewer hassles, IMHO.