Recommendations for a Dualsport bike

**zhu** · 11-21-2014, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by ZMC888

I think if you are riding in China you're going to be 50% good tarmac, 30% potholed/smashed uneven and 20% lunar landscape. You can see with bikes like the YBR125K or G that they have the clearance, some road trail tires and maybe handguards and box paniers, you'd be fine. Sure ideally off road you could have more travel and if only and ideally a XT250 Tenere, but that travel just isn't needed 80% of the time, so buying a Chinabike with all the potential cheap parts and mediocre assembly is IMHO a poor decision. Many people have gotten pretty much anywhere on a YBR250, most of the time they end up dropping them because they use the original tires off-road, which is a pretty simple fix.

Agree on the percentages there but here is the thing...

You wont be fine on a Ybr because the first few times in the day when it tries to spit you off you will save it . 300 km and 10 hours later you wont save it and it will spit you onto the road, if you are lucky you will walk away cursing the shit shocks.

To the OP you will be shocked how much an XT250 would cost you too import. I would say you could then just go ahead and buy a new JH600 for less money. Not a bad bike as it happens but you originally asked about 250's.

**culcune** · 11-21-2014, 05:01 PM

What about the Jialing the poster is also asking about? I remember when the founder of this site, 'CrazyCarl' did his ride on a Jialing 150, and filmed it for his documentary, it seemed to do everything and go everywhere he asked it. I know before he moved back, he was kind of tied in with Qingqi, and did several rides on a bike they loaned him. But as was mentioned, apparently their quality has gone downhill from about 10 years ago (which, ironically, included the time Carl was there and riding one of their enduros?!). I seem to recall mostly favorable, or all favorable, reviews of Jialing 150 enduros from the few posters who in the past few years have posted about them (including Carl), so would the 250 naturally be as reliable? Or have they had a major management change, ala Qingqi, the last few years?

**bikerdoc** · 11-21-2014, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by cryptographicide

Alright. I'm convinced. I'll bite the Yamahook. But I'm a little scared about the price. How much am I looking at for a XT250 Tenere? (In RMB, and including the cost of importing and registering)
How bout a YBR250 Chinamade.

Next, how do I go about buying one of these pretties. Who do I talk to? How good does my putonghua need to be? Do I have to go somewhere to pick it up?

When it comes time to sell, will I get anything for it. I plan on staying here between 2-5 years.

BTW, I really appreciate all your advice on this.
Looking forward to reading more.

The XT250 is not officially imported/distributed in PRC.
Buying and importing a XT250 Tenere into PRC? Hmmm buying overseas - easy, importing it... likely near on impossible to get it landed and officially passed through PRC Customs and then certified (CCC'd). Even if you could, factor it costing you 100% of the full MSRP from the jurisdiction of purchase. So the whole exercise would be cost double the purchase price.

Sorry to say but PRC is almost a closed shop for private imports, unless your employer has a import license that covers vehicles and you can find an agent to handle the complexities. I know as I've been down this road. This can change if someone you know has all the right connections (serious Guanxi). Plus it can depend on other factors such as the port of landing etc. Shanghai Customs are thought of as being more fair and reasonable when applying duties and taxes compared to other ports e.g. Ningbo - which apply duties to almost everything. Keep in mind that PRC is one country with many little kingdo0ms all administered differently. No one rule applies. What works here may not work there.

For the moment, importing a motorcycle which is restricted to brand new models with zero (0) mileage. Imports from anywhere other than ASEAN countries or countries of origin which have a FTA with PRC, receive 100%+ import taxes and duties. Hence why HD's, most Ducati's, BMW's made outside ASEAN cost at least double the equivalent in most other jurisdictions. MC's built in ASEAN countries attract approx 30-35%, and FTA countries are on a sliding scale down to 0% over time e.g. NZ.

**zhu** · 11-22-2014, 12:28 AM

There you go then

Import a bike made in NZ and 0% duty to pay.

Oh no wait...

**bikerdoc** · 11-22-2014, 01:26 AM

Originally Posted by zhu

There you go then
Import a bike made in NZ and 0% duty to pay.
Oh no wait...

I wish. Very exclusive and limited production Britten motorcycle made in NZ.

**zhu** · 11-22-2014, 01:58 AM

I think you can only buy the T-Shirts now

**cryptographicide** · 11-22-2014, 08:46 AM

What about the Jialing the poster is also asking about? I remember when the founder of this site, 'CrazyCarl' did his ride on a Jialing 150, and filmed it for his documentary, it seemed to do everything and go everywhere he asked it. I know before he moved back, he was kind of tied in with Qingqi, and did several rides on a bike they loaned him. But as was mentioned, apparently their quality has gone downhill from about 10 years ago (which, ironically, included the time Carl was there and riding one of their enduros?!). I seem to recall mostly favorable, or all favorable, reviews of Jialing 150 enduros from the few posters who in the past few years have posted about them (including Carl), so would the 250 naturally be as reliable? Or have they had a major management change, ala Qingqi, the last few years?

This is great. I would appreciate any anecdotes or ideas about how the Jialing brand is currently. Does anyone know if they have the contract to produce honda engines? Is this a myth? Does that mean they are capable of created a bike of approachable (?) quality to a Honda? I'm not sure what it means when a factory in China makes another brands product? Do they apply typical Chinese practices but use the Japanese template or is the Japanese company heavily involved in the manufacturing process from beginning to end? Anyone have any knowledge about this?

**MJH** · 11-22-2014, 09:44 AM

Shineray is offering a copy of a Yamaha Tricker with a 223cc Honda type OHC single.

Good site to do some shopping

You can rent Honda Bajas in Laos, it probably be less trouble. There are RFVC 249cc engines in those and very common in Vietnam and Laos and real Hondas.

**ZMC888** · 11-22-2014, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by zhu

You wont be fine on a Ybr because the first few times in the day when it tries to spit you off you will save it . 300 km and 10 hours later you wont save it and it will spit you onto the road, if you are lucky you will walk away cursing the shit shocks.

So according to you a Chinabike Zongshen has well damped shocks, but a Yamaha YBR250 has badly damped shocks? Hmm, I disagree, I suspect that the difference is just suspension travel. YBR250 is about 120mm travel and the Zongshen, not sure maybe 150-180 range. That suspension travel makes a more comfortable ride and faster ride over rough ground, I just can't buy that it has much to do with the situation. That is really all down to rider skill and tire choice.

**ZMC888** · 11-22-2014, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by cryptographicide

This is great. I would appreciate any anecdotes or ideas about how the Jialing brand is currently. Does anyone know if they have the contract to produce honda engines? Is this a myth? Does that mean they are capable of created a bike of approachable (?) quality to a Honda? I'm not sure what it means when a factory in China makes another brands product? Do they apply typical Chinese practices but use the Japanese template or is the Japanese company heavily involved in the manufacturing process from beginning to end? Anyone have any knowledge about this?

Jialing had a joint venture with Honda motorcycles. I doubt the Jialing motorcycle company use much Japanese manufacturing processes these days, but I would have thought that their power products division do. They currently have the right to manufacture some of Hondas branded power equipment such as small generators and power washers. Most of the small singles that you see manufactured by China brands came though Jialing, such as the CA/CMX/CB250 twin engine, the CB125 twin engine and a few others such as the CG125 engine. I think these designs were leaked by someone at Jialing and that is why Honda pulled the plug.

However the JH600 is a different engine, designed for them by someone else. But a JH125 is just basically a Honda engine, and not reversed engineered. That's why I categorize the bikes differently. So I have the lowest rung reserved for the likes of Zongshen, Shineray and Loncin who have gotten rich from basically just stealing other peoples designs, CFMOTO, Jialing, Haojue Qingqi have or had JVs or have paid others to design engines for them, that in my view puts them in a different bracket to the bottom feeder thieves.

You'll only get anything near a Japanese level of manufacturing when the company has a joint venture with a Japanese company and they are exporting the bikes. Lots of people buy Chinabikes and they really want to believe that they have bought the right bike. But honestly having owned plenty of both the Japanese bike makers are streets ahead, sure the Chinese are catching up, but there's still no comparison.

Bikes like the Zongshen look OK, maybe they actually are, but you can never guarantee that any bike will or wont be a lemon, it's just that the Chances with a Chinabike are just much more likely, especially in the first few months where something can fail, and then again after the first two or three years. A YBR 250 will probably do you over 10 years and have good resale over that time, a Zongshen might do 3-5 years and after a year or two depreciate badly. As far as I know a Zongshen RX3 is 20,000 RMB new and the YBR250 24,000. So you save 4,000 RMB, but the bike will have like 90% chance of having some kind of small problem in the first year, and then again in year two or three maybe game over, a YBR250 probably about 5-10% chance of anything other than a leaky fork seal or other very minor thing, then you add the depreciation, a properly kitted out YBR250 is an obviously better choice, plain common sense. Yes, you'll spend more and probably have 50mm less suspension travel, but it surely will be worth it.

If I were you and you have decided on a 250 (which I don't really think is enough power for two plus luggage) then buy a YBR250, put good imported road/trail tires on it, optional sump guard, optional crash bars, hand guards, a rack and hard paniers, you'd be perfect. Or a JH600.

What's your budget?