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  1. #1 California Scooter Company RX-3 Cyclone Test and Info 
    Administrator-tron CrazyCarl's Avatar
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    Hola Alles, wanted to share the ADVMoto links to the new California Scooter Company (CSC) RX-3 Cyclone.

    For those who haven't heard of it, this is a Zongshen produced, fuel injected 250 which targets the budget adventure touring market in the US and (possibly soon) Canada. Despite many North Americans having a rocky experience with C-Motos in the past, this new model has gotten a good amount of support from the ADV community.

    CSC is really putting themselves out there on the RX-3 so I hope both the customers and makers do our fair best to support this model development for generations to come. For Chinese bikes to be taken "seriously" in North America, getting over the "disposable" status stigma will only happen over considerable amounts of time. Until then, we feel CSC is off to a good start and begs a fair question: Where are bikes like this from other manufacturers? CSC is paying attention to peoples comments and will likely find this thread.

    We've spent some time working with them over the past months and our Senior Editor, Paul Smith, just got back from a test ride with some thoughtful comments on the RX-3. Check out the article and let us know what you think.

    Will the RX-3 be the mold-breaking bike?

    ADVMoto Quick Spin: 2015 CSC Cyclone RX-3 Test Ride




    ADVMoto Press Release and Specs: CSC Announces the RX-3 Cyclone



    Will keep posting here as events unfold.

    Cheers,
    CC
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  2. #2 Re: California Scooter Company RX-3 Cyclone Test and Info 
    foreign China moto dude bikerdoc's Avatar
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    Or more aptly...

    when the PRC company(-ies)/business realise that long term strategies that combine an appreciation and understanding of external customers/consumers and not just locals would serve to better appreciate a potential customers wants and needs;

    PRC companies/businesses tell their potential customers what they want rather than listening to customers;

    PRC companies/businesses fail to understand that any mistake that damages ones reputation becomes almost insurmountable in developed markets;

    PRC companies/businesses focus on making short term gains (e.g. money) rather than developing longer term strategies and end up sacrificing professional attributes in the process;

    PRC companies/businesses often have short sighted strategy focused on money as opposed to building quality that can help sustain the company or business in the longer term;

    PRC companies/businesses fail to appreciate the aesthetic elements of style, function and product design which might aid in product differentiation within the market place, often failing to utilise simplistic yet elegant design elements

    YMMV
    Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist
    - Pablo Picasso
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  3. #3 Re: California Scooter Company RX-3 Cyclone Test and Info 
    Senior C-Moto Guru culcune's Avatar
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    Carl--this bike has been getting alot of posts on the thread on chinariders.net, including a link to your fine magazine's writeup. If you want to see how well this bike will do, look no further than the Zongshen Gy200-2 guru 'Spudrider' who has 67k miles/100k + kms on his enduro (the Zongshen that uses a near-identical engine to the Yamaha TW200, not the more common Honda CG clone engines that most of us have). He is on the waiting list for the first container of bikes to arrive to the US. He, combined with a few others, will dissect their bikes and find any shortcomings, and improve on them. I think this will be a successful bike for Zongshen! Not sure how/if Chinese business practices will change, but at least it should boost Zongshen's standings. Others will have to step it up...
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  4. #4 Re: California Scooter Company RX-3 Cyclone Test and Info 
    Administrator-tron CrazyCarl's Avatar
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    BDoc, all of those are valid points, but it fundamentally means you can't place that level of expectation on the manufacturer and the survival of the product depends on the dealer/aftermarket support.

    It would of course be better if the manufacturers took a couple dollars from their huge wallets and put it into proper design and marketing of their products; but really they mostly only want to produce a) what they THINK the buyer wants, or b) whatever the buyer specs them to build. It's inherently short-sighted. And really, when you're the #1 exporter of motorcycles around the world, where's the incentive to compete with the dozens upon dozens of nearly identically spec'd badges out there? Can you imagine 50+ large motorcycle companies, just from China, all making 100% unique bikes in massive quantities? We don't even see that with the modern auto industry as a whole, much less from one country. As a consumer, I wonder if we could even process or evaluate that much variety and still lead something which looks like a life.

    Relying on the dealers/aftermarket to do this keeps is deceptively challenging because they incur 100% of the marketing and support cost. This is one reason why many of the past start-ups have basically floundered from underestimating (or sometimes totally ignoring) the massive responsibility of PROPERLY branding any product AND supporting/developing it over decades.

    Since these are not easily replaceable (or shippable) items, it means they need considerable support systems, supplies and processes. We still haven't gotten to the branding and outreach yet. Now you gotta have a killer website, sharp logo, graphic art support, video producers, copywriters and one different person to do each of these. Outside, you're trying to build credibility through media (new and old) , but are still selling to a tiny market which you believe has greater potential. Then this has to be done for several years before you'll make back your original investment, and this isn't even, paying yourself much, if anything.

    Whatever happens with the RX-3, happens. Have no doubt though that what CSC, and any other importer faces in trying to get an inexpensive bike off the ground lacking real factory support is adventure in it's own right.

    If you guys think riding in China is scary, try selling Chinese bikes in America!

    CC
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  5. #5 Re: California Scooter Company RX-3 Cyclone Test and Info 
    Administrator-tron CrazyCarl's Avatar
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    SIMON! Whazzup yo?

    I don't really see this as a ZongShen story, but really more about CSC. My last post touches on this indirectly, but fundamentally the real winning or losing here goes on at the importer. ZongShen will sell many times more of this model to other countries. Plus, if it's successful in NA (almost entirely due to CSC's work), they will likely just use that fact to promote sales in other countries who have absolutely massive demands for a relatively big 250.

    But let's suppose ZongShen is actually investing in the branding and reputation of their bike and supporting the importer. Maybe sharing some advertising cost or providing collateral. The fact that there's not one Zongshen logo on the CSC front page would mean one of the parties isn't doing the fundamentals right. Let's suppose ZongShen is NOT proving any branding support, then why not just go ahead to pay a little more and have your own badge? I'm sure there are extra costs involved (milling engine covers, decals, etc.) but you'd avoid having to sell a brand most of your new customers won't recognize.

    Either way, these are just speculative questions. It will be fun to watch the story unfold!

    CC



    Quote Originally Posted by culcune View Post
    Carl--this bike has been getting alot of posts on the thread on chinariders.net, including a link to your fine magazine's writeup. If you want to see how well this bike will do, look no further than the Zongshen Gy200-2 guru 'Spudrider' who has 67k miles/100k + kms on his enduro (the Zongshen that uses a near-identical engine to the Yamaha TW200, not the more common Honda CG clone engines that most of us have). He is on the waiting list for the first container of bikes to arrive to the US. He, combined with a few others, will dissect their bikes and find any shortcomings, and improve on them. I think this will be a successful bike for Zongshen! Not sure how/if Chinese business practices will change, but at least it should boost Zongshen's standings. Others will have to step it up...
    ---------------------------------------------------
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    Help support MCM!! Buy "The Return - Riding Western China" DVD! -

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    Personal China travel info, photo and video site:

    http://www.carlparker.com

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  6. #6 Re: California Scooter Company RX-3 Cyclone Test and Info 
    Senior C-Moto Guru culcune's Avatar
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    Most of us knew about this bike (and its origins) thanks to the guy who bought an early one and rode it from China to Turkey and posted his thread here on MCM. Spudrider or someone else, linked the thread to chinariders months ago. Also linked to the CSC thread on advrider! It has Zongshen all over it! Joe from CSC is active on both the chinariders thread and the advrider thread.
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  7. #7 Re: California Scooter Company RX-3 Cyclone Test and Info 
    Senior C-Moto Guru culcune's Avatar
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  8. #8 Re: California Scooter Company RX-3 Cyclone Test and Info 
    Senior C-Moto Guru ZMC888's Avatar
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    I have an open mind with the RX3, but I'd need consistent reports of it being good, and not for a few rides but actually a bunch of guys riding it up to 10,000 kms or more. My Chinabike is is far from terrible, but it will take a heck of a lot to get the quality of parts and avialability, assembly and 2nd hand resale at anything like Japanese levels. My normal suggestion to people who ask is 'buy a 2nd hand Honda instead' and honestly I feel I'm giving the right advice.
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  9. #9 Re: California Scooter Company RX-3 Cyclone Test and Info 
    Administrator-tron CrazyCarl's Avatar
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    Hey ZMC, I think you've basically summed up the prevailing attitude towards CMotos in much of the western world. Your comments also go to illustrate how much work there is to be done and why it's an almost unfair burden to place on the backs of small businesses.

    CC

    Quote Originally Posted by ZMC888 View Post
    I have an open mind with the RX3, but I'd need consistent reports of it being good, and not for a few rides but actually a bunch of guys riding it up to 10,000 kms or more. My Chinabike is is far from terrible, but it will take a heck of a lot to get the quality of parts and avialability, assembly and 2nd hand resale at anything like Japanese levels. My normal suggestion to people who ask is 'buy a 2nd hand Honda instead' and honestly I feel I'm giving the right advice.
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    http://www.carlparker.com

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  10. #10 Re: California Scooter Company RX-3 Cyclone Test and Info 
    Senior C-Moto Guru ZMC888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyCarl View Post
    Hey ZMC, I think you've basically summed up the prevailing attitude towards CMotos in much of the western world. Your comments also go to illustrate how much work there is to be done and why it's an almost unfair burden to place on the backs of small businesses.

    CC
    True, but some opinions are formed from bigotry, where people just don't like the whole idea of Chinese motorcycles and say 'no' regardless. However my eyes are open and I've formed this opinion from personal experience. I think there is a difference, a similar conclusion has been reached from different avenues. There are also some western commenters that say something like 'in the 1960s and early 1970s Japanese bikes were looked down on and called 'Jap-crap' by many people, there was little innovation and they were essentially copying Italian, British and American designs, now Chinese manufacturers are going through the same stage - so cut them a break'.

    But really Japan isn't China and 99% of each population will testify to that with every ounce of their being. Sadly design and innovation outside of electronic engineering, modern architecture and fashion in China is pretty seldom, due to the education system, in most part IMHO. I can see nothing much more than a slow catch-up then China being a big manufacture hub for big western brands like Thailand or India. The government is hoping for 'a Honda of China', surely meaning a world leading R&D marque for motorcycle automotive design and excellence, honestly, I just can't see it, although I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
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