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  1. #1 Honda grom 125/MSX 125 
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    I wanted to start a thread about this bike in China.
    Overall it's a great bike to play around on, has 4 speeds up-gradable to 5 speed,
    has a 125cc 8hp single engine up-gradable to a 235cc 4v 27hp engine
    They even make 12" carbon fiber wheels for it!
    The fastest one yet can do over 100mph.

    Riding in Taiwan they are neck and neck with the Yamaha BWS 125 scooter.
    The grom can go into the corners slighty faster then the BWS if downshift/skidded into.
    The BWS can out corner due to a lower center of gravity.
    The grom is better for rough roads which could be a determining factor in China.

    In Singapore they are 9000usd new.
    In Taiwan they are 5500usd new.
    In China they are 3500usd or 23000RMB
    https://world.taobao.com/item/527686....VAbddI#detail
    And everywhere else in the world they are about 3000usd+-

    They have quite a following in Japan, and the U.S.
    I am curious how many they sale in China, or if there are any clubs there.
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  2. #2 Re: Honda grom 125/MSX 125 
    Senior C-Moto Guru culcune's Avatar
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    Zongshen makes a clone of them called the Rapido, but not sure if they are available in China? There are a few videos of the clone on youtube, but most are from what appear to be Thai online magazine. The Chinese company TMEC has just released what appears to be the Rapido here in the US, called the Denali 125FX. Not sure if they buy Zongshen knock-down kits and assemble them as their own brand, but I am pretty sure they are not 'stealing' Zongshen's Rapido outright, as I have a few years old TMEC 200 enduro which features a Zongshen engine, meaning I know they have worked with Zongshen in the past, and still sell the TMEC 200 with the same 200cc Zongshen engine today.

    The distributor's site show the TMEC's MSRP as $1599 which is about half of a Grom's price. That makes a lot of sense to me since I, or many others, could purchase one for cash, while the Grom makes sense for Honda (and new buyers) at $3k purchased most likely on a loan.

    http://www.sunright.net/linhai-scooters/denali-125%20FX
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  3. #3 Re: Honda grom 125/MSX 125 
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    The cheaper price of the Rapido does make it worth considering if the engine mounts are the same, since then you could swap in high quality aftermarket parts made for the grom. But honestly I prefer quality and would be willing to pay a bit more for a genuine Honda product, having owned many genuine Honda products in the past and can attest to their durability.

    Since the grom was such a hit, Kawasaki has got in on the action to with the Z125.
    https://world.taobao.com/item/527403....b8LaTr#detail
    It's about the same price and spec as the grom.

    Maybe next year we could even see an offering from suzuki or yamaha.
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  4. #4 Re: Honda grom 125/MSX 125 
    Senior C-Moto Guru Zorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanDuke390 View Post
    The cheaper price of the Rapido does make it worth considering if the engine mounts are the same, since then you could swap in high quality aftermarket parts made for the grom.
    All those Chinese so called "small bore" horizontal engines (50-110 cc) are "Honda" clones, so engine mounts are the same, and those same engine mounts were kept on "big bore" horizontals (125 and bigger), regardless of engine design/component layout. Of course, rest of the big Japanese four also makes engines with horizontally orientated cylinders and possibly different engine mounts, but as much as I understand, they are not widely popular among Chinese moto manufacturers.

    So, buying genuine "Grom" or some Chinese clone (or any other mini with horizontal engine), you are not limited to "Grom's" aftermarket parts. Just take a peek at some pit-bike forum and you will be amazed how big is aftermarket offer for those horizontals.

    Quote Originally Posted by RyanDuke390 View Post
    But honestly I prefer quality and would be willing to pay a bit more for a genuine Honda product, having owned many genuine Honda products in the past and can attest to their durability.
    Don't worry about durability. Even assorted Chinese made parts will be good enough, not to mention those who come from Japanese performance parts factories.

    Quote Originally Posted by RyanDuke390 View Post
    Since the grom was such a hit, Kawasaki has got in on the action to with the Z125.
    https://world.taobao.com/item/527403....b8LaTr#detail
    It's about the same price and spec as the grom.

    Maybe next year we could even see an offering from suzuki or yamaha.
    You currently live (and ride) in China? Right?

    At least, there you can find "assortment" of minies (compact bikes with 12-13" wheels). For example, "Motrac" offers interesting bunch od minies - http://motracmotorcycles.com/
    Ask me nothing - I DO NOT speak english. Really...
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  5. #5 Re: Honda grom 125/MSX 125 
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    Skyteam also have their own version of Grom:
    http://www.skyteammotor.com/Motors/Urban/
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  6. #6 Re: Honda grom 125/MSX 125 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krasi View Post
    Skyteam also have their own version of Grom:
    http://www.skyteammotor.com/Motors/Urban/
    It is possible that Jiangsu Sacin “Skyteam” manufactures the Motracs minis, however that website from Queens Garden is a distributer’s site. They have more than Sacin’s manufactured models listed on it.
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  7. #7 Re: Honda grom 125/MSX 125 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    A Thai Honda MX 125 Grom retails for about $1,800.00 in Thailand. That is its primary market

    Copies of it sell in China for around 7000 RMB.

    If a list of who sells a similar design in China was created it be a long list and so would after market parts.

    Also altering off originals, like dropping in a high output engine in most countries makes it no longer street legal. For example in the US the engines are sold but for racing, only because some some people race tiny bikes. If you get caught with one that is modified on the streets they can confiscate it and the crime is falsification of registration and a felony in most states.
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  8. #8 Re: Honda grom 125/MSX 125 
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJH View Post
    A Thai Honda MX 125 Grom retails for about $1,800.00 in Thailand. That is its primary market

    Copies of it sell in China for around 7000 RMB.

    If a list of who sells a similar design in China was created it be a long list and so would after market parts.

    Also altering off originals, like dropping in a high output engine in most countries makes it no longer street legal. For example in the US the engines are sold but for racing, only because some some people race tiny bikes. If you get caught with one that is modified on the streets they can confiscate it and the crime is falsification of registration and a felony in most states.
    In Taiwan the groms are registered by VIN number only. For some reason they do not put imported motorcycles engine numbers on the registration here, only Taiwan made products get the engine number put on the registration card. So swapping in say a Thai performance 235cc 4v finbro engine putting out 27hp is not problem here, even if pulled over. Most likely most readers could give two sh&ts but who knows might be good to know if coming to Taiwan.

    In China I have noticed a lot of electric Grom clones. Those seem to be semi-popular and not all that uncommon.

    I still remember seeing the first mini, it was the KSR 110 in Thailand.
    But interestingly enough I learned of one most people haven't heard of,
    and it's pretty much one of the best mini's out.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY0uRNIaGaA#t=119.161
    The KSR 80 was a two stroke, making it lighter and more powerful.
    It looks like a blast to play around on.
    img_4.jpg
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  9. #9 Re: Honda grom 125/MSX 125 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    Mini bikes have been around for a while, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Minibikes
    That is why I refer to them as a cyclical fad, the Chinese are jumping on the band wagon and nearly every manufacture makes one.
    There are manufactures in China making high output horizontal engines, those engines all of them have potentially short lives.
    There was a member on the site that used to race them TB for tiny bike.
    Buying a real Honda and then pulling the engine seems like a waste, its the engine and PMFI that makes it better. Do they use the EFI or do they use a carb on the race engine, seems a good way to learn mechanics and part of the fascination with the minis is in that cheap and lots of parts that are not always cheap but relatively speaking much cheaper then what it would cost do the same on a full size race bike.
    As far as the engines and swapping, the problem is when and if you get caught speeding or worse an accident, because under scrutiny you default to ridding an illegal vehicle.
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  10. #10 Re: Honda grom 125/MSX 125 
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJH View Post
    Mini bikes have been around for a while, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Minibikes
    That is why I refer to them as a cyclical fad, the Chinese are jumping on the band wagon and nearly every manufacture makes one.
    There are manufactures in China making high output horizontal engines, those engines all of them have potentially short lives.
    There was a member on the site that used to race them TB for tiny bike.
    Buying a real Honda and then pulling the engine seems like a waste, its the engine and PMFI that makes it better. Do they use the EFI or do they use a carb on the race engine, seems a good way to learn mechanics and part of the fascination with the minis is in that cheap and lots of parts that are not always cheap but relatively speaking much cheaper then what it would cost do the same on a full size race bike.
    As far as the engines and swapping, the problem is when and if you get caught speeding or worse an accident, because under scrutiny you default to ridding an illegal vehicle.
    I know the original Honda monkey bikes have been around for ages. I think the first new age mini bike was the KSR 80.
    For some reason that one went under the radar, and a few made it to U.S. shores to be legally plated. (limited production?)
    Then when I was in thailand the KSR 110 became a big hit, still no plated KSR 110's in the states at that time.
    What did become popular around that time in the states where all those illegal to ride on the road pocket rockets.
    It seemed like everyone and their mom jumped on the bandwagon a bought one, and everyone and their mom had one confiscated
    for riding on the road since they never met road legal specs for being to small to see on the road.

    Finally Honda did a mass produced, road legal, in showroom floors mini and it created a big cult like following of owners in the states.
    It was what everyone wanted but waited about 10 years for after the disappearance of the short lived ksr 80.

    So I guess in the states the grom was the first new age mini to make it after the original monkey bike.
    Asia kind of did it's own thing, and Thailand got spoiled with street legal KSR 110's around 2005.
    Why didn't Kawasaki make a U.S. street legal spec of the KSR 110 and export at around that same time?
    That is the million dollar question I have yet to figure out.....
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