Lifan Pony 100- Chinese Grom-like bike - $999 shipped in the US. Anybody have one?

[culcune]

Unlikely I can get a PA plate for it tho.

I know I have seen the Pony on the annual PDF that is put out by the EPA/DOT for all street-legal bikes--not sure which year, may be '14 when I saw it, but I know I did see it and was wondering what 100cc bike they were introducing here in the US. I thought maybe a weird displacement scooter or a pit bike, but the pit bike would not make sense since the list is for 49-state street legal bikes (they list California CARB bikes, too). Then it made sense a few months ago when these started getting grassroots PR via motorsports forum groups--the point is, I KNOW I I saw the Pony on the PDF as getting EPA/DOT approval, so perhaps that could convince the state if you print out the PDF if they initially deny the Pony a plate?

[scottro]

Unfortunately PA is predisposed to deny bikes who's VINs start with L and that are not on PA's list (that hasn't been updated in 3-4 yrs). I don't live near the state capitol to plead my case w/ anyone who can change the list. And PA has a habit of keeping your title and plate fees and sales tax whether you get registered or not. On top of notary fees, that would be approx $250-300. Basically, I would have to get the bike insured, fill out forms, fork over the money, wait 6 weeks and get denied. Lol
Been there. Done that. Hello Vermont. Lol

[MJH]

According to this article PA sends all the application for a title in PA that are made in China to Harrisburg, according to this article in dealer news dated 2008, so its old news.
http://www.dealernews.com/dealernews...-chinese-bikes
The “special unit” in Harrisburg, according to the article, check the VIN with the database of the NHSTA, you can do that yourself, and here is the database online.
http://www.nhtsa.gov/apps/manufacturer/index.htm
Federal Regulations require that all manufactures selling vehicle in the US submit documents to the NHSTA, Lifan had, so as long as they have there is no reason that your motorcycle cannot be titled.
As long as it has a label on it stating it meets all FMVSS and the manufacturer submitted the required documents. That vehicle has an EPA certificate as well, that is totally different, but also can be verified online with the EPA.
Many of the manufactures selling Chinese made models, did so without meeting federal regulations, many states never bothered to check. PA and some others do and as long as the vehicle meets federal regulations you can get a title for it and then a license plate.
If PA refuses to title it then they would have to have a specific reason and there would have to be a specific law to justify that, to the best of my knowledge there is none.

[MJH]

I cannot imagine any State, in this case a Commonwealth, charging a fee before the title was issued. Has anyone else had that experience, having to pay first, typically the fee is charged when they actually give you what you are paying for.

[culcune]

I cannot imagine any State, in this case a Commonwealth, charging a fee before the title was issued. Has anyone else had that experience, having to pay first, typically the fee is charged when they actually give you what you are paying for.

Someone had just such an experience in PA a couple weeks ago, but with one of the Hawk enduros, not the Pony--first post http://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=15432

[MJH]

According to the article PA is only enforcing federal laws, based on that post the Hawk is not legal for some reason to sell in the USA.
I still cannot image any one paying fees for nothing “Hundreds of extra fees”.
The dealer in Texas could title the bike there in Texas to the dealership and then if it had a Texas title it only then needs to be transferred to a PA title. Point is that if it is legal to sell in the USA it is legal in all 50 states. The reason that does not happen is because it cost more and the only reason it is not done that way.
Some states, so I have heard, like New Jersey will not title vehicles for out of state dealers, they require that any new vehicle titled in the state have a dealership in that state. That makes sense since all dealership get licenses based on them actually having a service center and technician.
I find a lot of humor in all the misrepresenting….

[scottro]

According to the article PA is only enforcing federal laws, based on that post the Hawk is not legal for some reason to sell in the USA.
I still cannot image any one paying fees for nothing “Hundreds of extra fees”.
The dealer in Texas could title the bike there in Texas to the dealership and then if it had a Texas title it only then needs to be transferred to a PA title. Point is that if it is legal to sell in the USA it is legal in all 50 states. The reason that does not happen is because it cost more and the only reason it is not done that way.
Some states, so I have heard, like New Jersey will not title vehicles for out of state dealers, they require that any new vehicle titled in the state have a dealership in that state. That makes sense since all dealership get licenses based on them actually having a service center and technician.
I find a lot of humor in all the misrepresenting….

Haha Glad you find humor.

In this case, it's actually you who are misrepresenting.

Yes. PA "SHOULD" title and plate Chinese bikes w/o a problem. In fact, I am a resident of PA. I have tried titling EPA and DOT certified Chinese bikes within the last 2 yrs, I can tell you in my first hand experience that PA DMV doesn't operate the way you say they "SHOULD". At best it's a crap-shoot. At worst, in my personal experience, they cash your check and deny you. If you send our DMV a payment, it will be cashed.

If you need to see a newer link than 2008, here's an official PA Bulletin from 2012. The PA bulletin is where plate issuing agents get their info, and 2012 is the most recent time L VINS were discussed in the official PA bulletin.

http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Public/DV...tin%2012-2.pdf

Here's what happens: You take your MSO to the notary/registration service facility. The nice Notary takes your paperwork, gives you some additional forms and notices the L VIN. Or something pops up on their computer to alert them. They will pull out the above document and if your bike is on the approved list, congrats. You get your plate and registration.
If not, then all your paperwork, proof of insurance and payment get sent to the state's Special Services Unit where it can take 6 weeks for them to deny your application. Or in rare cases, approve your application. You can point to DOT and EPA and NTHSA websites all day long. The Notary gets his or her official information from the bulletin.

You may have paid with a check or w/ credit card thru the Notary. But your fees for title, plate, and sales tax will be sent. The Notary will generally add at least their title processing fee of $50 and whatever fees for any other paperwork.

If you read the bulletin closely, you'll even see that your scenario of titling the bike in TX and transferring to PA will require Special Services Unit approval... or .... denial.

"Title applications for two- and three-wheeled vehicleswith a VIN beginning with "L" where the proof ofownership is an MCO or a title issued by anotherjurisdiction must be submitted to the Special ServicesUnit for examination and no temporary registration maybe issued for these vehicles.As MCOs for additional makes and models of vehiclesare found to be in compliance with NHTSA filings, youwill be notified via future bulletins."

In a nutshell, you are telling people how things "SHOULD" work in Pennsylvania-- "to your knowledge", from what you "can imagine", a 2008 article you found and a couple gov't websites.

And I'm telling people how things "DO" work in PA -- based on my recent personal experience.

I also wish things worked the way they "SHOULD".

[MJH]

Hey there is no dealer that would do that, title the bike and then ship it to you in their name, it’s a liability risk for them. If they did it would no longer be new, it be an out of state title…was but is no longer an untitled import. It is possible that they realize that some states are titling vehicle that are not legal to title in the USA? That could be happening just as there are states letting companies sell illegal vehicles across state lines.
If you purchase an imported vehicle without a title then it up to you to make sure it is legal to title. PA as I wrote is only enforcing federal regulations, there was nothing new in the 2012 PDF, seems obvious that before you buy it you should check the NHSTA database and make sure the manufacturer is listed, before you start writing checks, there is also nothing in that doc about non-refundable fees.

[scottro]

Hey, you're the one who said this:

"The dealer in Texas could title the bike there in Texas to the dealership and then if it had a Texas title it only then needs to be transferred to a PA title. Point is that if it is legal to sell in the USA it is legal in all 50 states. The reason that does not happen is because it cost more and the only reason it is not done that way. "

There's nothing in the document that says they WILL refund fees either.

Lifan's VIN decoding scheme was added the NHTSA site in 2009, but was never added to the list provided in the PA Bulletin.

In real life, PA does things differently than you can imagine or to your knowledge. I knew PA wouldn't plate it when I ordered it because: 1. it's not on their list and 2. I've attempted this before. Thus I will not apply and I will not send them money because they they didn't refund the money the last time I tried. This comes straight from the letter I received: "Any negotiable checks or money orders submitted with the application have been deposited by the bureau."

At any rate, you are free to believe whatever you choose and offer your opinion whenever you want. If folks have concerns about plating a Chinese bike in PA, they are welcome to PM me.