A bit about me ...

[CrazyCarl]

There's nothing a person needs to know that the ancients couldn't tell you.

It's all big circles and we are stuck a line! :blink:

CC

[Chinggis101]

So how come you went from Big bikes to small bikes? Did you go back to the end of the line or do the ancients believe you get a better view of life going slower?

[CrazyCarl]

I went from big bikes to small bikes largely because I saw other people doing it and not complaining about it. Not only were they not complaining, but were happy to have the freedom and opportunity to independently travel at all. If it's possible for so many people - really a majority of the world's riders - then why not me?

Then the question is: Which ultimately places the greatest limitations on your experience? You or the machine?

CC

[Chinggis101]

I've been spoilt. Far to spoilt. Having the freedom to travel is a wonderful thing, which is why I'm wanting 2 wheels again. But its the grunt, gotta have some grunt.

[CrazyCarl]

Well there's all kinds of considerations to make when getting a vehicle. These small engines work well for travel in China where the people tend to be smaller and lighter as well as have bad roads which makes high speed travel unnecessary and dangerous.

Grunt is good too and while 600cc is big by current Chinese standards, it's really not so big as to be extremely fuel inefficient. My personal gripe with larger bikes on bad roads is the extra weight and size. Picking up 150kg fully loaded 150cc in the mud is bad enough but I can't (and don't want to) imagine lifting over 200kg's of bike in mud or water riding solo! :blink:

The experience you'll have discovering China's country-side by moto will entirely change your idea of China and what you're doing here. Have fun on the JH600 but most importantly see some new stuff and take some pics!

CC

[Chinggis101]

CC I think we're talking different things here. I quite agree that picking up a fully loaded 600 will probably break more than the bank, and the camel's back won't need a straw. The question is however, would you/me or whoever be riding a fully loaded 600 in places where its likely to fall over.

A smaller, lighter 200 is much better for doing the kind of bush trail where falling over/off, sliding down slopes, getting stuck in soft sand is part of the fun of the trail.

I certainly don't see myself doing that kind of trail on the 600, well not at this stage anyway. I'm already getting ahead of myself and thinking about a trip up to Ulaanbaatar, Lhasa, or Urumqi in a year or two. The question is, would I survive with my spine intact on anything less than a 600 and what's the likelihood of me riding over 'falling off' terrain going to those destinations.

[CrazyCarl]

Falling over only has a little to do with the places and more to do with the rider. A complete idiot on a perfectly good road can still fall over right? Good roads does not equal an accident free ride.

As far as the road conditions go in the places you've mentioned, They get better every year but yes many of the roads in Western China are "fall-off able" roads if you don't have some extreme weather riding experience and know how to navigate long stretches of trails or destroyed road surfaces.
The mountain passes out here average between 4300 and 4700m/asl. There are many passes and most of the roads are broken as you approach the tops, esp on passes with steep switchbacks. The weather at altitude can be anything at anytime, regardless of what the valleys look like.

Franki got caught on a 4,300m pass in a snow storm just west of Chengdu one time on the JH600. You might want to ask him what happened.

I think you're right, we are talking about different things. :biggrin:

CC

[Brice]

Franki is a very experienced rider in China and he travels long distance on tarmac roads mostly therefore a 600cc is plainly justified for him.

You live in SW China so the grasslands and the mountains will be certainly your primary playing fields, you want to ride the dirt and muddy roads, you have no or little experience riding in China, a light bike is a preferable choice. After one year you can always resell it.

I have a 400 Yamaha XJR and this is just useless here, few roads to enjoy it and speed is reduced because of the many hazards.

[Chinggis101]

I feel it is somewhat unfair that you tease me with tales of high adventure in SW China. OK, seriously, I'd be the first to admit several things, I haven't done much off-road stuff on 2 wheels for a looong time, so the likelihood of falling off on a dirt road is much greater in my case than most of you lot. I also have little to absolutely no idea what its like riding outside the city, off the beaten track. That pleasure awaits me. But unlike Franki I'm not going to be riding all over China for long distances, especially over mountain passes, at this stage anyway.

I am genetically predisposed to learning by the 'bump your head method' so it is likely that there will be the odd 'falling over' experience in my learning curve. However over the years I've started to learn that I'm not indestructible and will tend towards caution until I feel comfortable with a) the bike and b) the road/track/surface.

Anyway, thanks for all the input.

[CrazyCarl]

Learning the hard way is probably how most of us on here do it. Not trying to be discouraging, just the opposite actually.

I'm sure you'll choose the ride most suitable for your interests and find the happy medium. The most important thing is to get out and do it...and take pictures!

CC

P.S. - Did I mention take pictures? :biggrin: