Zongshen

[MJH]

The Sapucia sell for 6,136.00 Argentinean pesos or $1,407.34 Dollars.

[culcune]

I was just thinking, MJH, you had posted a link to an article about Rato coming to the US in North Carolina--probably CKD kits and distribution channel.

http://www.governor.nc.gov/NewsItems...ewsItemID=2256

Yes, I know that we are waaay off topic, but is more interesting than Zongshen!

[MJH]

I do not think that there is an OEM behind Italika, I believe that they are just buying parts from the so many suppliers.

In the beginning joint ventures were set up, in those regions the technology was transferred to regional centers, academic bases, typically provincially centered, designs were set into CAD systems and categorized, indexed and shared.

That is why you see standard engine codes, but there are also standard frames as well. They shared all the designs.

The RT200 model shares much with the LF200, in fact all of those type models almost always have the same instrumentation, also they share common electrical, CDI etc.

Italika is likely sourcing the same way that a Chinese assembling facility does, it sources the parts from the network.

For example I pointed out the Suzuki GN250 gauge design on the FT125, I’ve seen it used on other models as well. There is likely a company that makes those and Italika buys them in volume….they have a parts list for each model and in that they buy as needed to meet production schedules.

Italika designs are all based on what they can buy off the shelve in china. They may or could offer up new designs…then seek a contract to have them manufactured, but why would they if the sharing is still occurring and of course it is. New also requires retooling if it is something totally different, that costs and if exclusive it is economically infeasible or impractical, because the only way to keep the cost down is within the volume sales. So something special or different would cost more, because it take production resources from what could be or actually is justified in high volume.

[MJH]

The Italika and Zanella will win in South America, because they beat the tariffs by assembling domestically. They also can consider actual domestic sources for any parts they believe can be sourced through domestic supplies.

I would like to see an engine plant in the USA supplying all their engines to them, but unfortunately the costs would be too high, but you have to wonder if they are demanding close to 500,000 engines annually? Perhaps a highly automated process could meet the demand?

Here is a possibility? I think it worth looking into…there is obviously demand for the engines.
http://www.truckandenginemanufacturers.org/

[Britster]

I was doing a Google Search to try and find out what was the name of the Engine used in the ZS150 GY-10 and the 150/155cc version of the Cyclone 'Pursuit' ZS125-50 (which usesPZ125)

So I assumed it might be PZ150 and searched for that!

One of the Search Hits was this one:-

Chongqing Zongshen Power Machinery Co.,Ltd.

www.zse.cc/newsdetail.aspx?NewsID=1&CateID=18


13 New Products of Zongshen Motorcycle Engine Passed Appraisal ...
Commission, and the appraised models included YB110, PG/PZ150, W125, Z110 2-in-1.

So I did a search on www.zse.cc/ website for PG/PZ150

I only found the 125cc Watercooled engineZS156MI(SB125), not the 155cc Version:-

Type: ZS156MI

Another Name: SB125

Mode: Single Cylinder Four-stroke

water cooling Inclined(15°)

Maximum Power: 8.0kw/8500r/min

Maximum Torque: 9.2N.m/7500r/min
Compression Ratio: 10.5:1

Bore&Stroke: 56.5mm×49.5mm

Displacement: 124.04ml
Ignition: C.D.I

Lubrication: Pressure & Splash

Fuel Consumption: ≤367g/kw.h

Start: Kick & Electric

Clutch: Hand-operated, Wet-Multi-Chip

Gearshift Method: constant mesh/two stage transmission/5speed Gearshift

Net Weight: 30kg

Dimension: 358*350*446

I read somewhere it was OHC and 4 Valve, but ant find it again?


Only find the 125cc of the Cyclone 'Pursuit' ZS125-50, not the 150/155cc (as used in the Motostar IQ-155Z)

PZ125



Key Product Attributes

Performance and characteristic

The international advanced abnormity combustion chamber design, burning more fully, more powerful, at the same time meet European II emission standards
Professionally designed horizontal large heat sink, built-in cooling duct, to ensure better cooling, powerful.


Re- optimize and design the balancing axle system,professional design for lightweight piston,crank and piston pin,so that engine work more stable , take more comfortable and safety to the customer.


The professional design for strengthen clutch spring, improve the clutch smooth engagement and sensitivity, to ensure a smooth and fast start.

Anyone aware that Zongshen have developed a 500cc Diesel Engine - DSW500 for use in ATV (but could perhaps be adapted to Motorcycle use)?

http://www.zse.cc/productsdetail.asp...&ProductsID=31

Engine model	ZS500-E
Engine name	DSW500
Engine type	Single cylinder,4-stroke, air-cooling, camshaft upwards
Displacement (ml)	493.8
Dimension (mm×mm×mm)	756×431×414
Net weight(kg)	80
Max. power (kw/r/min)	10.0/3800
Max. torque (N.m/r/min)	28.0/2500—3000
Compression ratio	21:1
Bore and stroke(mm×mm)	86×85
Ignition method	compression-ignition
Lubrication method	Pressure and Splash
Min. fuel consumption (g/Kw.h)	≤280
Starting method	Electric
Clutch method	Manual dry single-Plate clutch
Gearshift method	Constant mesh, three stage transmission ,5-speed Gearshift

Power of 10kW is not too impressive for 500cc engine, BUT 28 Nm of Torque from 1,500 - 3,300 rpm (Peak of nearly 30 Nm @ 2,300 rpm WOW!

Sure plenty of Motorcyles produce > 30 Nm, but these will inevitably be, race tuned, or >500cc, and peak Torque will be at higher rpm most likely. Max Power may only be 10kW but it occurs @ just 3,800 rpm.

This DSW500 engine should be good at pulling loads, climbing hills and give fantastic fuel ecconomy(and might run of used cooking oil - filtered SVO like some Diesel Car engine conversions)

[MJH]

Good for a little tractor….not sure but I think that the oil of preference in Asia is Sesame and Peanut and are not that cheap and not that plentiful.


But using it as fuel might offer or prevent it from being reused in cooking.

[MJH]

David R. Whittall's Videos

[Britster]

Good for a little tractor….not sure but I think that the oil of preference in Asia is Sesame and Peanut and are not that cheap and not that plentiful.

...

Diesel Fuel was Php11 / liter when I first came to live in Cebu, Philippines in May 2001

Now it is up to Php50.2 per liter, but Gas Prices are higher - Caltex Gold P60.23 / Silver P59.69

In some cases it is possible to 'switch' to using filtered used cooking oil (SVO Straight Vegetable Oil).

A British guy who was a Member of my Cebu_BritClub Yahoo Group, developed the 'Greasol' conversion Kit for cars in the UK.
He said he used to get used Vegetable oil from Chinese Restaurants for FREE, and said they changed their oil more frequently than 'Fish & Chip Shops'! (In UK not allowed to pour oil down the drain, you have to take it to special collection places to be properly disposed of /re-processed - that costs time or money

See the following:-

• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetable_oil_fuel
• http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html
• http://www.vegoilmotoring.com/eng/mixing-diesel-svo
  
  

[Britster]

The XR200 has an MSRP in the Philippines of 137,900.00 Peso ($3,225.00 USD)
http://www.hondaph.com/showcase/xr-200

The Honda website has the XR200 engine as a 4 - Stroke OHV Air Cooled, however the image is of a OHC engine?

MJH,

Can I ask you please, why you seem so sure that the engine featured on the Honda Philippines website is OHC rather than OHV?

If you could see the other side of the engine, the presence of a 'Cam Chain' and a 'Cam Chain Adjuster', would confirm it is 'OHC' not 'OHV'.

Certainly the presence of Tappet Covers is no proof as these are present on OHV engines using 'Push Rods' to operate the Tappets. On OHC engines where the Cam actuates the Tappet movement, there will be Tappet Covers to allow Tappet Adjustment


So what is this Honda XR200 engine - 'OHV' or 'OHC'?

Honda.ph XR200 engine.jpg

Well it is a Photo from an owner of a Honda XR200, bought in the Philippines!

To me, they look the same (from the right hand side view at least)?

This suggests that Honda are showing a photo of the XR200 engine, which is the same as the XR200 engine being SOLD, in the Philippines, which they say is 'OHV', not 'OHC'.

Are the Specifications correct for an OHV XR200?



They both have Over Head Valves (OHV) actually! It is how these 'Overhead Valves' are actuated, that is the difference!

There are 4 x Different Engine Designs:-

1. OHV engine design (Push-Rods actuate Rocker Arms and Tappets the Valves)
2. OHC or SOHC engine (Over Head Cam actuates the Rocker Arms and Tappets the Valves)
3. OHC or SOHC engine (Over Head Cam actuates Valve directly)
4. DOHC or Twin Cam engine (OHC actuates Inlet Valves, another OHC actuates Outlet Valves)

(1) and (2) both use pivoting Rocker Arms to actuate the Valve via Tappet Adjustment Screw (Easy Maintenance, but lower max RPM).
Better optimized port configurations made possible with overhead camshaft designs. With no intrusive push-rods the overhead camshaft cylinder head design can use straighter ports of more advantageous cross section and length. The Power Gain may be worth the added complexity of driving the OHC.

(3) and (4) have the advantage of Higher RPM and better porting to produce more Power than OHV engines, especially DOHC, since wider angle between Inlet and Exhaust can be accommodated. Multiple Valves designs are also possible


See http://www.samarins.com/glossary/dohc.html for animated illustration of (1), (3) and (4)

[MJH]

MJH,

Can I ask you please, why you seem so sure that the engine featured on the Honda Philippines website is OHC rather than OHV?

because it is.