Group ride goes bad

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Originally Posted by axa

ok tough guy, you can handle a NY mob on your own, for you and yours, got it...
everybody? ok let me be clear, all my statements were made with only myself in mind.

"never at risk"? having been forced to a dead stop on a highway doesn't put anyone at risk?

"only beat him up"? you seem to believe that is acceptable given the bikers incited the incident to begin with. someone starts with u, they 'only beat you up' its only fair.

your proving yourself foolish.

put it this way, i realize you live in a land of repression, but thats apparently your choice.
though in the US we tend to believe humans have a fundamental the right to live without having you or your property harassed, threatened, harmed, so on and so forth. As soon as you infringe or impose on the fundamental rights of others, you may forfeit those same fundamental rights.

And that is precisely why while after being evaluated in the public eye, only those thugs have been charged, and the driver will not be...

you share an opinion with very few people.

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+ 1:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

Life in part is about conflict management, if you cannot defuse the situation then best choice is get out of that situation. If your choice is to escalate the conflict then that is also menacing behavior. There are people driving everyday that are menacing and many of them actually believe that are breaking no laws.


The motorcycle riders were all menacing that is clear in the video and other videos associated are demonstrating the behavior, they ride recklessly and are endangering others.


However how you address these menacing riders and what happen because of that is important, when is the use of deadly forces appropriate and when is it excessive?


I think I see evidence of what was excessive with the SUV, I think that there was a fast peeling off when what was needed was a warning and a slow and steady progression forward, driving over people is excessive. Serving notice as in giving warning is missing and in that I see liability for the drivers actions and what resulted in damages.


I also believe that these riders very likely only conflict with those that interfere with them and their reckless spree. I have suspicion that the action of the SUV leading to the start of the video were not intended to defuse and avoid the conflict, I see evidence that that may have escalated it.


When law enforcement was called then they should have consulted as advised the driver to get away and not to conflict or antagonize. I also believe that without restraint the victim becomes an equally menacing antagonist.


Without any video evidence of the events leading up to the video starting, the SUV pushing its 600lbs through a group of motorcycle, we do not know at what point the SUV may have become antagonistic, however witnesses may bring that out and if consistent then there may be also the possibility of reckless and menacing chargers filed on the SUV driver, who did not leave the scene and chose another way to address the group of menacing riders.


The driver of the SUV could also bring about civil lawsuits on the riders and also the NYCPD, these videos of riders and their blatant disregard of traffic laws are so incriminating and law enforcement not addressing them is a dereliction of duty. Also dispatch not advising drivers to avoid conflict is also a dereliction of duty.


If a call is made to 911 then its connection should be maintained and statements made and then investigations take place. But it is certainly the responsibility of dispatch to defuse conflicts and in cases like these it is not only about suggesting to leave the roadway it is about demanding that and if not respected could result in being charged with obstructing of justice.


If I was in the SUV I would have not been beaten down, I would have gotten away with no damages at all.
I would have then gathered up all the evidence and handed that evidence to the mayor and his chief of police and said solve this problem or I will hand you your asses.


So in some degrees Lien is a vigilante hero and in another he is a fool with the scares to prove it. But he brought it to the front as a vigilante does, they force it to the extreme, they stand their ground they become bad in addressing what is bad, they bring the lack of civil disorder to light.

It's funny that here in the US, most of the people commenting on articles about the video are on the side of the SUV driver.

On the Jalopnik link MJH posted, there was someone who was driving a car on the highway wheveryoo said this same pack would not let him change lanes when he entered the highway. They essentially trapped him in the lane he entered on which turned into an exit lane. Inspite of signaling and using hand signals, the group kept speeding up to prevent his entering the freeway, with some flipping him off.

He did state he did not see any of the actual incident, but couwld see they were clearly being assholes. I interpret that to be a more wild and reckless version of old fashioned biker gangs, out to cause havoc on the roads as if they are trying to have a mass protest against the rules of the road.

There are videos all over youtube of the same type of pack mentality riders doing the same thing on highways all over the US. The ones the people post of when cops become involved are quite happy to show and report them getting even more reckless in their quest to outrun the police, as well as report on police " harrassment" if they feel the police aren't playing by the rules, including one where the entire group of maybe 100+ riders completely slows to a crawl and en masse u-turn start riding the wrong way up a major highway's onramp and one gets a minor bump from a police car that was caught up in the fray (it did not look like he purposely hit the guy,either).

Its hard to digest all of that when it contains this...

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Originally Posted by MJH

we do not know at what point the SUV may have become antagonistic

they should have consulted as advised the driver to get away and not to conflict or antagonize.

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Do you believe with any real conviction that this dopey guy was 'antagonizing' anyone?

Was it like he saw one bike rider, didn't notice the mob, and felt it was an ok idea to "antagonize" him?

Or are skinny asians in NY particularly known for "antagonizing" bikers while out for a sunday drive with the wife and kid?

Or is that this particular dweeb, has a set of steel balls the size of church bells and felt that "antagonizing" these bikers was a feasible thing to do.

Regardless of what you say may have happened leading up to the point the biker stopped the SUV, (if anything at all cuz the NYPD investigation reveals nothing) the line was crossed when the bike tried to, and then stopped the SUV.
And just as speculative as your statements, i saw on one news broadcast it was was so they could clear the road to do tricks and what not...

Ill say i again, I have no idea how you guys are defending this shit.

This kind of excuse making will always muddy the waters, help give cover to those whom prey upon others.

You hear about it a lot with the ever so common story that some selfish fool gets drunk and mows someone down dead... And then they come out of the woodwork... 'they suffered enough', 'they have to live with it the rest of their life'

You can never prevent all stupidity, but if we as society clearly laid blame where it belongs, it would likely help curve stupidity before it begins

Some "truth" is starting to seep out ...

Biker organizes ride from his mom's basement

Yeah, another "tough guy" living behind a computer screen ... well, tough until mom comes downstairs.

Hells Angels comment:

"It’s always a few people who give us all a bad name."

Huh? Did I read that correctly? OK, fair enough.

==========

This story seems to have gone viral outside China - I view it/read about it on/in all the major western media sources. It appears that well over 90% of the commentators blame the bikers. Yet, I have not seen any report in any mainstream Chinese media outlet.

I have been following the active discussions on a couple of Chinese motorcycle forums. Interestingly, there seems to be about a 50:50 split on assigning blame.

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Hey mom? Can you bring me a sandwich?

Imagine it’s a few hundred yards to the west and on the Hudson Greenway and then instead of bikers it’s a group of seniors ridding rascal scoters. They get playful and scare a Manhattan socialite walking her poodle. She tries to avoid them but they box her in and then she panics and begins to fling poop at them, they attack her in response and she then in return starts kicking them over and one rolls into the river and sinks like a stone….whose fault is it and if you were the Manhattan socialite what would you have done?

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Originally Posted by MJH

... a group of seniors ridding rascal scoters.

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Hey there MJH ... are you talking about my riding buddies and I? :lol8:

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Originally Posted by MJH

... they attack her ... what would you have done?

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I would've gone for the poodle ... I hate those little things.

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Originally Posted by MJH

Imagine it’s a few hundred yards to the west and on the Hudson Greenway and then instead of bikers it’s a group of seniors ridding rascal scoters. They get playful and scare a Manhattan socialite walking her poodle. She tries to avoid them but they box her in and then she panics and begins to fling poop at them, they attack her in response and she then in return starts kicking them over and one rolls into the river and sinks like a stone….whose fault is it and if you were the Manhattan socialite what would you have done?

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Yeah well it wasn't was it... one cannot and should not compare this with that.

The subject at hand was a real situation with real consequences and the other is an altogether different hypothetical scenario. So what is the point of some hypothetical this or that. Waste of time. No one situation fits all.

None of us were there in that moment, at that time, faced with all the stressors or thoughts, and actions some of which, if not many were outside ones locus of control.
We have very little information or insight into what background all the participants have, nor previous experiences that might influence ones reactions and decision making.

All the information we are getting is less than 100% factual, no matter how a journalist/then editor tries to play it out.

When I watch the video (which is subjective as not one of us will process what we see as exactly the same as the next person), I see a black SUV driven with loads of restraint, given what transpired in the latter portion of the video I watched uploaded onto Youku, nor what supposedly had preceeded it. There's loads of context missing, the supposed video from before the en-mass group ride along that freeway then to the altercation where the SUV strikes the bike and rider parked across the SUV exit/escape path, and then the beating of the SUV driver.

What surprises me somewhat is not one of the motorcycles seemingly collided with one another given how unpredictable various riders appeared they were with their riding positions. Though this is of little consequence or significance in the greater scheme of things. What is also suprising is there doesn't appear to be any mention of any gun used or brandished during this whole saga, which given Americans propensity for the 'right' to bare arms comes as a surprise to me.

Unless one has ALL the facts, then one really ought to reserve judgement. Unless one was in that very situation then how the ____ can anyone else pass judgement!

You know the AARP can get pretty rambunctious, particularly on issues of Medicare and or Social Security entitlements, There may have been a rally that weekend and some attending tea baggers may have riled up the seniors and could have brought about the whole incident, creating a mob like mentality.


I read that the Manhattan lady has a phobia of getting old and may have seen the group as a vision of what she could end up like, she was not fighting off them, she claims, just the thought of aging. She denies rumors that she said they are nearly dead anyways when asked how did it make her feel when you heard one had drowned in the river.


Other sources claim that the seniors became mob like when told that Obamacare is to balance the budget by cutting off Medicare and prescription drugs, they were told it is a plan to kill off seniors to insure social security remains solvent.


Some believe that the seniors planned to rob the Manhattan socialite, they saw her wealth and wanted to take some of it and her having a poodle made her look weak and an easy target, some say.

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Originally Posted by MJH

Imagine it’s a few hundred yards to the west and on the Hudson Greenway and then instead of bikers it’s a group of seniors ridding rascal scoters. They get playful and scare a Manhattan socialite walking her poodle. She tries to avoid them but they box her in and then she panics and begins to fling poop at them, they attack her in response and she then in return starts kicking them over and one rolls into the river and sinks like a stone….whose fault is it and if you were the Manhattan socialite what would you have done?

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ok this has gone the way of stupid but ill bite...
just tell me which part of that story equates to bringing traffic to a dead stop in the middle lane of a highway

I thought I wrote a reasonably funny parody, everything is a matter of interpretation. Not really of the actual events, but maybe of the media and internet responses to the incident in general.

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Originally Posted by MJH

I thought I wrote a reasonably funny parody

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Yeah, it was :icon10:

@bikerdoc - I have viewed a few videos of this group (Hollywood Stuntz), including the infamous 2012 Times Square run. They do, in fact, crash into each other on a regular basis. Also, in one or two of the videos, you can see parked bikes falling over when people try to park next to them, without the sidestand down, etc. Typical large-group ride, where everyone thinks they need to ride close to each other, and why I avoid them. I used to go out on HOG rides, in China, but I experienced too many terrifying close calls with new riders on massive machines. Same with other "cool" group rides.

Now I prefer 1 or 2 other bikes, alongside people I know and trust. If someone in an anonymous group ride pulled a wheelie and zoomed past me in the same lane ... well, I'd go all RR on the guy down the road.

@axa - totally correct - these clowns were shutting down a road, trying to prevent other vehicles from getting on ... just so they could do their "stunts" and thumb their noses at the laws.

=======
Hey Mom, I'm thirsty!

Undercover detective among "Hollywood Stuntz" riders, some of whom were involved in assault.

Taken from the comments section... Chris-749391

Several things are starting to add up on this case:

1) The biker who started it apparently did so because he had a long-standing hatred of Asian-American drivers, according to his Facebook posts. Despite his lies to the contrary, because the video clearly shows what happened, he will end up being charged with enough driving offenses to cost him his license permanently, false imprisonment (which is how brake checking is charged), and most likely with a hate crime addendum to the false imprisonment which will net him a mandatory prison sentence.

2) The biker who was run over had a knife in his hand trying to slice the SUV tires (while another person on the other side was actively cutting at the SUV tires.) He was driving on a permanently suspended license (which wouldn't even come up for review until 2015) as a habitual offender. He had never possessed a motorcycle license or endorsement. And he has a long felony and misdemeanor rap sheet (14 pages long.) If he survives and keeps his mouth shut, he will likely not be charged if he is permanently paralyzed which is likely. If Gloria Allred raises too much of a stink, he will be charged with false imprisoment, attempted manslaughter, and numerous traffic offenses. He might be charged with a hate crime as well. A reminder to him: All it takes is ONE felony and most states permanently disqualify you from Medicaid, all forms of state-administered welfare, and even Social Security Disability. This would not be a good position for a paralyzed person to be in and could be the worst punishment he will suffer from the incident, causing a slow agonizing death with only free clinic treatment.

3) The driver is well-protected by the NRA's "castle docrtine" which included personal vehicles. Under the castle doctrine the first obligation of the victim of an attack where he fears death or bodily injury to himself or other "castle" occupants, is to FLEE! Exactly what the driver attempted to do. While the SUV can be considered a deadly weapon in this case, it was used precisely in accordance with self-defense laws. The knives, the numbers of people, the criminal records of the bikers all tend to completely support the driver.

4) Numerous of the bikers were armed. All illegally as far as what has come out so far. Sunday pleasure bikers do not generally carry guns.

5) There were as many as five undercover policement (sic) riding with the bikers. And these policement (sic) were so deep undercover that each had a separate handler. (Most undercover policemen are "self-handling.) To put that many policemen in deep undercover on a biker gang pretty much means that they were onto something --- most likely drugs. You simply do not waste five deep undercover cops and five handlers on Sunday bike stunts. You're talking about something on the order of $1 million a month or more. There had to be something pretty big going on there.

6) The cops are slowly indicting the bikers one at a time. This is likely being done so as not to "squeeze out" or identify the undercover cops. It is very likely that every single biker will be facing felony charges of some sort.

7) The biker who filmed it all just confessed that he lied to the cops and said that the battery on his go-cam died just as the beating started. In fact, he admitted that he turned it off to keep from further incriminating his buddies. He will be charged with felony obstruction unless he cooperates.

Interesting stuff.

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Originally Posted by bikerdoc

Interesting stuff.

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Definitely.

I'm obviously really out of touch with the riding scene back home, but it seems that these massive riding mobs have become quite common (judging by the number of youtube videos available). I'd suspect that they attract a certain type of individual. Really, riding around inside a mob of who-knows-who must be kinda scary.

Damn, I'm kinda glad my reckless youth was spent during a quieter and gentler time.

This should not be considered as one group, it was an event that called in lots of different groups. So they are not all associated or even know each other.


It is possible that some of the subgroups were under investigation and infiltrated by undercover officers.
It is also possible that some of the subgroups attending had police officers as members and that they were identified in videos? It is possible the undercover claims are nothing more then a dodge of what would be very embarrassing to the NYPD, that being some of the participants in the ride may have been identified as off duty cops. NYPD is very large and within it has motorcycle riders and in those some likely belong to ridding clubs and with those some may have joined in the ride?


If in fact Lien hit a rider prior to Cruz , then its about time to hear a statement from the alleged victim of the initial hit and run. If no rider comes forward then its all more story telling.


Where is the evidence for number 2.…its not in the video is it.
Edwin Miesse’s best interests would have been to get the heck of there since he did not have a license.
None of these guys are very bright are they, being without a license and being involved in this not such good combination if staying out of jail is the goal. Getting Cruz off the road and getting out of there would be more logical.


Lien likely has an attorney and maybe a damage control PR person by now. Hopefully for him all the claims of a prior accident before the one with Cruz are not true, if they are true it does change the case substantially. .

http://piersmorgan.blogs.cnn.com/201...verybody-down/

If you are driving on a road going 100mph and no law enforcement officer see you, then you will not be charged for speeding, however if it is on video you could be. Its a crime whether you are caught or not. Not everyone on the Henry Hudson that Sunday afternoon broke a law.


Miese should be charged with ridding without a license, he is on video doing so.


This case is very big and all the video has to be gone through, but one problem in our legal system is plea bargaining, if you are identified breaking the law then you can bargain your charges down if you offer evidence to implicate others.


All those bikes being ridden without plates are all breaking the law, lane sharing is illegal too, single file only, some speeding, some reckless operation…
Theoretically there are a set of vehicles and within it a set that is breaking laws.


If you see a high degree of laws being broken, what should you do, join in? Nope you should get away, the question is and will remain, did Lien join in and with a 6000lb SUV?


Any statements made to law enforcement have to be actual and factual, if not then that is a crime. However what can be said in the media is not and what is written in comments anonymously not either. Those can be self serving biased and even straight up lies. The trick is to know the difference.

The hard part is to know the law and then to also be able to contemplate the laws in a moment in time, most are inept at that. What you think you would do without knowledge and understanding of the law is about what ignorant people think and then do.

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Originally Posted by prince666

Not good for bike riders in general but it did happen in New York wear you can expect the unexpected 9/11 !

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Not enough time has passed to joke about 9/11, shame dude

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Originally Posted by RacerX125

Not enough time has passed to joke about 9/11, shame dude

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NO joke DUDE just stating a fact DUDE and surely never enough time will pass DUDE for someone to joke about 9/11 DUDE

Have you got my point now DUDE !!!!

[COLOR=#ffffff]So if a driver hits you and drives off you cannot chase them down and drag them out of their car and beat them, no kidding, because then the victim becomes the criminal.

I still think that the driver of the SUV and his wife should be charged with hit and run.

I love how they say accidentally hit the motorcycle, they seem to discount that they kept going.


I personally would have beaten the shit out of his ass. Call me uncivilized. When I first arrived in China, I went to a job interview and the taxi driver had pulled the ole' switcheroo on my money and gave me a fake bill. The guy who interviewed me is the Principal of a huge international school in Guangzhou and told me it was completely acceptable to jerk him out of the car and beat him. I love China! This prick ran over people and bikes. He deserved to get beaten and he deserves the punishment, along with those bikers. I struggled to refrain once from beating a driver who came within an inch of clipping my handlebars from behind, passing me while I was overtaking another vehicle. He then nearly hit another truck head on he was going so fast and literally went up on two wheels from braking so hard, before continuing to barrel down the road in the same manner. Probably drunk at 7AM. He eventually turned in to a government building...

Has anyone seen anything about this situation in the Chinese media? I've seen nothing.

BTW, I read that one of the undercover NYC policemen was charged today - apparently he was beating on the vehicle.

Let me also add that people have guns in America. And people tend to use them. I'm surprised there was no shooting in this incident.

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Originally Posted by ThePope

[COLOR=#ffffff]So if a driver hits you and drives off you cannot chase them down and drag them out of their car and beat them, no kidding, because then the victim becomes the criminal.

I still think that the driver of the SUV and his wife should be charged with hit and run.




I love how they say accidentally hit the motorcycle, they seem to discount that they kept going.


I personally would have beaten the shit out of his ass. Call me uncivilized. When I first arrived in China, I went to a job interview and the taxi driver had pulled the ole' switcheroo on my money and gave me a fake bill. The guy who interviewed me is the Principal of a huge international school in Guangzhou and told me it was completely acceptable to jerk him out of the car and beat him. I love China! This prick ran over people and bikes. He deserved to get beaten and he deserves the punishment, along with those bikers. I struggled to refrain once from beating a driver who came within an inch of clipping my handlebars from behind, passing me while I was overtaking another vehicle. He then nearly hit another truck head on he was going so fast and literally went up on two wheels from braking so hard, before continuing to barrel down the road in the same manner. Probably drunk at 7AM. He eventually turned in to a government building...

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You need help Pope you are one of .0009% who thinks the bike riders was right.....

I only watched that video once. I think those bikers are crazy too, but what would you do in a situation where you've been bumped and then the driver drives through bikes and people and doesn't stop? If that guy had just driven through me and crashed my bike and injured me I would have pummeled him also. I think it's a pretty rational feeling. I personally think that group of riders look like a bunch of idiots also. I don't get the point of what they're doing.

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Originally Posted by ThePope

I only watched that video once. I think those bikers are crazy too, but what would you do in a situation where you've been bumped and then the driver drives through bikes and people and doesn't stop? If that guy had just driven through me and crashed my bike and injured me I would have pummeled him also. I think it's a pretty rational feeling. I personally think that group of riders look like a bunch of idiots also. I don't get the point of what they're doing.

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Sorry to say Pope you need to watch the video again and read all the reports to get a true understanding on what did happen to say you would do the same as the bike riders and beat the shit out of the RR driver people will treat your comments with the contempt they deserve sorry to say !

Jeez, another China road warrior.

The http://piersmorgan.blogs.cnn.com/201...verybody-down/ comments are quite revealing and only serve to add to the culpability of the core motorcyclists, as really only a dozen or two out of the hundred or so riders, seemingly were involved in the actual assault on the vehicle and driver.

The comments of 'MJP', 'Patrish', 'KFlower', 'waddsworth', 'Vicy' et al., make a lot of sense, further bringing a balanced view to the events that transpired... It's important to remember that this occurred in the USA, not PRC so very little point in making the comparison though I appreciate the natural tendency to do so. One is comparing completely different social morals, norms, attitudes, culture, education, laws and even rule of law, statutes, and much more. There's little comparison.
PRC is given the label "developing" for a reason (or multiples of ten)... despite the ever increasing number of skyscrapers, BMW's, Mercedes, Porsche etc. As the saying goes, "you can put silk on a goat, but it's still a f_____n goat" - author unknown.

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Originally Posted by prince666

Sorry to say Pope you need to watch the video again and read all the reports to get a true understanding on what did happen to say you would do the same as the bike riders and beat the shit out of the RR driver people will treat your comments with the contempt they deserve sorry to say !

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What a bold statement there prince...

“Piers, Edwin is clearly a victim,” explained Allred, who joined*Piers Morgan*in his New York studio. “He [Lien] hit Edwin who is now crushed under the SUV. He did that without any warning to Edwin. Edwin, by the way, was doing nothing wrong. We’ve spoken to many, many people who were there. He did nothing wrong. All he had done was get off his bike, go over and try to calm everybody down.”


So i guess this guy should be held contempt as well...
Last time i check its still a forum, everyone is free to share their thoughts and opinions.
Dont make this a voting poll, not eveyone agrees with you.

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Originally Posted by prince666

Sorry to say Pope you need to watch the video again and read all the reports to get a true understanding on what did happen to say you would do the same as the bike riders and beat the shit out of the RR diver people will treat your comments with the contempt they deserve sorry to say !

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I saw clearly from the video that that guy driving the RR ran over bikes and people, because for whatever reason, he was too scared and intimidated to face the guy he hit. That's really all I can see. If I was one of the innocent guys that he ran over, I would be inflicting some damage back on him. Maybe those guys are a bunch of punks, but why couldn't he just call the police and wait on them? Because he's a different form of punk, that's why... He should have gotten out and offered a sincere apology and avoided the whole mess. And I've read some of the comments in different media sources and I'm not in the .0009%. Sport bike riders and biker gangs just have, deservedly, a terrible reputation. For the bikers, they're lucky they weren't in Tennessee, because even my mom would have shot them at point blank range without leaving the vehicle if they started attacking her.

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Originally Posted by ThePope

I saw clearly from the video that that guy driving the RR ran over bikes and people, because for whatever reason, he was too scared and intimidated to face the guy he hit. That's really all I can see. If I was one of the innocent guys that he ran over, I would be inflicting some damage back on him. Maybe those guys are a bunch of punks, but why couldn't he just call the police and wait on them? Because he's a different form of punk, that's why... He should have gotten out and offered a sincere apology and avoided the whole mess. And I've read some of the comments in different media sources and I'm not in the .0009%. Sport bike riders and biker gangs just have, deservedly, a terrible reputation. For the bikers, they're lucky they weren't in Tennessee, because even my mom would have shot them at point blank range without leaving the vehicle if they started attacking her.

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Mr Lien the driver of the Range Rover (RR) demonstrated a lot of restraint in my view. He didn't at any time during the video footage purposely attempt to hit any of the riders while his vehicle and the motorcyclists were mobile.
The riders bike (~200kg) that was initially struck by the RR, had by all accounts purposely moved ahead of the RR (2500kg) and braked suddenly, without warning. The momentum of the mass of the RR hit the much lesser mass of the bike in question, pretty basic physics. Factor into that the inevitable reaction time, and it's highly probable that only one outcome would result - BANG!. That's premeditation, on the part of the motorcyclist. The rest plays out for itself, and all can see that in the videos released...

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Originally Posted by crismoe'

What a bold statement there prince...

“Piers, Edwin is clearly a victim,” explained Allred, who joined*Piers Morgan*in his New York studio. “He [Lien] hit Edwin who is now crushed under the SUV. He did that without any warning to Edwin. Edwin, by the way, was doing nothing wrong. We’ve spoken to many, many people who were there. He did nothing wrong. All he had done was get off his bike, go over and try to calm everybody down.”


So i guess this guy should be held contempt as well...
Last time i check its still a forum, everyone is free to share their thoughts and opinions.
Dont make this a voting poll, not eveyone agrees with you.

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He did do wrong by STOPPING AND PARKING HIS BIKE and standing in front of the RR yes maybe he did not get involved in slashing the RR tyres and yes maybe he tried to diffusing the situation but at the end of the day he parked himself and his bike in front of a person with his wife and kid who was being attacked by other people who had knives and was trying to get into the vehicle. Not a good place to be would you not say !!!! and what warning can you give in that situation lean out the window and say "Please nice man would you kindly move you and your nice bike out of the way please" who aked for everyone to agree with me !! and who is voting not me ...

Truth, at the wrong time, can be dangerous.
Michael Ondaatje