ChinaV's new Yingang YG250NF (YG250-6)

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Originally Posted by andre555

Honda NX250 = Honda AX1 just different markets as I understood...

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From Wikipedia

Another version of Honda NX-250 was the Honda AX-1 intended only for the Japanese market. Using the same chassis as the NX-250, the AX-1 came standard with alloy rims, aluminum Pro-Link rear suspension this time with a rear disc brake, dual round headlights, taller cams, stainless steel exhaust and different carburetor settings. AX-1 outputs 29 horsepower at 8500 RPM at 11 to 1 compression ratio and 2.6 kgm torque at 7500 rpm.


I rode around Koh Samui Thailand for a week on one of those back in 2003, though it was a great little bike.

http://www.contactdi.com/2011/ND101181.jpg

http://www.contactdi.com/2011/ND100902.jpg

Cheers!
ChinaV

I see, same same, but different...:icon10:

In Germany it was sold as NX250 - People called it "the little Dominator" I read somewhere.

Hey V, want to upgrade to an AX1 Crank http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=6809989691 ?

I'm looking forward learning from your mods. :popcorn:

I have a parts list for the X2 including the 170MM engine details - 1.5MB, cant upload it. If anyone needs, send PM.

Thanks for the warm welcome, euphonius. :lol8:
ZMC888 and I met a while ago and he was the one who introduced me to this site.
I might not have even bought my first motorbike if I hadn't seen him ripping up the roads of Zibo with his.
:goodtime:Stay sober indeed, otherwise we'll just end up driving like most of the Chinese do.

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Originally Posted by ChinaV

Howdy Pete,

Nice to see you here on the forum. Now that you've gone public with your moto status, we expect lots of details of your China adventures.

So far I've clocked about 1500 kilometers on the Yingang and the bike has performed well. I bought it as a commuter, and she does a great job of making my ride to work an enjoyable experience. The bike is a little on the small side, if you're over 180cm tall, it can be a tad cramped, which makes long distance touring a bit painful. The suspension is fine for twisty pavement, but suffers on the bad roads, she's not an adventure bike, but does well as a canyon carver.

The power issue seems to be a simple matter of carburetion. China doesn't have any companies making large bore carburetors, so everyone slaps the same PZ30 carb on almost all the bikes and sends them on their way. Since the whole industry is heading towards fuel injection, I doubt they're going to invest in producing new models of carburetors. If you want power out of the Yingang, you have to keep the RPM's above 5000, she's got plenty of juice up there. Given some time to tinker, I think there's plenty of gain to be made in the low end with jetting changes or swapping to a larger carb size.

If you have nice twisty roads with good pavement around, I think you will be very happy with the YG250-6. The Yamaha YBR250 is probably a bit nicer, but it's a lot more money.

Cheers!
ChinaV

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Hey there! Thanks a lot for the info.
There are many twisty roads in my area. There are even more bad roads but I know how to avoid them by now so I think the YG250-6 would be perfect for me.
I measure 178cm :clap: so I must be destined for this bike.
I did have my eyes on the YBR250 a while ago because I heard that it's about the best quality 250 one could legally get in China. The price, however, is a big turn-off and 15,000rmb for a decent, fun 250 sounds much more appealing.
I don't know how many people want to read my reviews but I'll make some for sure.

Cheers,
Pete

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Originally Posted by soberpete

...I don't know how many people want to read my reviews but I'll make some for sure.

Cheers,
Pete

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We are all bored in our office cubicles, especially Monday morning - So get these reviews/reports coming!

Only powerful above 5000 rpm? Sounds like a jetting or needle height issue to me, or find the original carb that came with the Honda and put that on!

Pete, can I do a review of the bike when you get it too? :icon10:

Hi V,

something about the valve adjustments. I checked with the local Shineray guys earlier in January, they had no Shims by then, but promissed to get them. Called them today seems they didnt bothered with it...WHERE IS THIS TIC ICON

The parts manual uses this description: 调整垫
I assume I will need 4 shims, but what size can only be measured once everything is taken apart. Do you know where in China (taobao?) get a whole set of suitable shims? (I only find YoYo spare parts)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by andre555

Hi V,

something about the valve adjustments. I checked with the local Shineray guys earlier in January, they had no Shims by then, but promissed to get them. Called them today seems they didnt bothered with it...WHERE IS THIS TIC ICON

The parts manual uses this description: 调整垫
I assume I will need 4 shims, but what size can only be measured once everything is taken apart. Do you know where in China (taobao?) get a whole set of suitable shims? (I only find YoYo spare parts)

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Don't bother that "Shineray" clown. 4-wheel use similar thing, just go to car parts city find a right one.

such a good review and the bike looks amazing, congrats chinaV :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by andre555

Hi V,

something about the valve adjustments. I checked with the local Shineray guys earlier in January, they had no Shims by then, but promissed to get them. Called them today seems they didnt bothered with it...WHERE IS THIS TIC ICON

The parts manual uses this description: 调整垫
I assume I will need 4 shims, but what size can only be measured once everything is taken apart. Do you know where in China (taobao?) get a whole set of suitable shims? (I only find YoYo spare parts)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by humanbeing

Don't bother that "Shineray" clown. 4-wheel use similar thing, just go to car parts city find a right one.

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I think humanbeing is correct about finding car ones. I will see if I can get a spec from Yingang and maybe try to buy a complete set. Would be happy to share the kit with you André, seems a bit of a waste for both of us to buy them as the bike will most likely get by with only a couple valve adjustments in its life.

Cheers!
ChinaV

Nx250 shop manual http://ray-chi.tw/bbs/read.php?tid=14648 (:thumbsup:to that Taiwanese guy)

Thats what fits the NX250 - should fit the 170MM engine:
7.48mm Valve Shim Kit (141 total Shims)
Includes three 7.48mm OD Valve Shims of each size from 1.20 to 3.50mm in .05 increments.
==> http://www.cyclebuy.com/shopping/hot...imkits_748.htm

Fits for these bikes:
HONDA
CRF 250R/X, NX 250, CB1 400, CBR 600 F2/F3/F4, CBR 600RR, RC-30,
RC-45, 750 Magna 94-00, VFR 750, VFR 800, CBR 900/929/954, CB 919,
CBR 1000RR, CBR 1100XX, ST 1100, GL 1800

YAMAHA
YZ 250F, WR 250F, FZR 400, FZR 600, YZF 600, YZF-R6, YZF 750, FZ 1,
FZR 1000, GTS 1000, YZF 1000, YZF-R1

SUZUKI
RM-Z 250, GSXR 600, GSXR 750 93-02, SV 650, DL 650, RF 900,
GSXR 1000, GSXR 1100 93-98

KAWASAKI
KX 250F, ZX 600, ZX 6-R, EX 250

Question: What "Chinese" car has this size - couldnt find anything, guess need to go to the market.

Found a factory in Google that supplies 7.48mm OD Shim http://www.nbwlqcpj.cn/
ChinaV,
Can u "save" bikers in China by order themdirectly from "maker" ? It's hard to find kits as in Western world.

The DIY :eek2: version: http://motorcycle.sh.cn/t_16849339.htm


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IF can't find on "mart" , http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=6776997061

Quote:

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Originally Posted by andre555

Honda NX250 = Honda AX1 just different markets as I understood...The Chinese Code for the engine is 170MM.

ADVRIDER has a NX250 owners group with heaps of information on that bike, engine and drivetrain.

Following are the specs of the Shineray X2 withs same/similar? engine (170MM):

Gear ratio:
Primary reduction 2.727 (same)
Final reduction 3.286
Gear ratio: 1 = 2.846
Gear ratio: 2 = 1.882
Gear ratio: 3 = 1.389
Gear ratio: 4 = 1.143
Gear ratio: 5 = 0.957
Gear ratio: 6 = 0.833

Spark Plug is identical, Oil Capacity is 1.4l

Intake Valve clearance = 0.15mm +/-0.03
Exhaust Valve clearance = 0.20mm +/-0.03

Installed Carb is a PZ30

Fuel Consumption 2.4L/100km --> nope!

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TK MV34 is what is on the Megelli getting that carburetor out of HISUN and changing the final drive ratio would likely be the easiest route to go. The Megelli I believe has a final drive ratio of 2.87 or about bet the bikes at its best at or around 3.0 for city driving.

The guy on china riders, that has a Meggelli changed his rear sprocket to some huge tooth count and found the bike all strung out in first and second…yours has a very tall gearing so that looks like it’s the carburetor.

Those engines should all be very similar…so configuring it off the Megelli would seem the easiest way to go. Trick is getting anyone that will sell you one, that and adjusting it.

Yingang took the low budget approach and used a cheap carburetor, so it seems.

After reading this review and drooling over the pics i contacted Yingang about this bike. It turns out that the bike is NOT registerable in China anymore. Devastating!
Looks like ChinaV got the bike just before the cut off date. I've attached a snipet from an email sent to me from a source that Yingang. I don't know what the EURO3 is but i'd guess it's some kind of emissions test that the bike failed?

"But sorry ,now this bike can not do registion . ???? was successful to do regesiton before,but these days in China ,goverment gave us a rules for registion ,must reach EURO3 after FEB .28th,then can do resigition. Now it is already Mar.3th ,but our bike only EURO2,so now can not do registion. Pls check whether have problem for you , for normal chinese ,if not do resigtion ,must have problems...it is better not to try this model now." - source at Yingang

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Originally Posted by dewsnap

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they are telling the truth. Any bike register after 28th of Feb must pass Euro3 emission test. So if you want one register, then wait for the new euro3 fuel injection one which they promise better. at least till June, we'll see.

SUCCESS!!! Went with slabo to the Shineray shop just to check situation and maybe fins shims somewhere nearby.
Zhao Feng, the Shineray Motorcycle Club "SRMC" - Shop leader had shims there, several sizes...So valve adjustment was on! :clap:
Everything finished, next time in 36.000km :thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by andre555

SUCCESS!!! Went with slabo to the Shineray shop just to check situation and maybe fins shims somewhere nearby.
Zhao Feng, the Shineray Motorcycle Club "SRMC" - Shop leader had shims there, several sizes...So valve adjustment was on! :clap:
Everything finished, next time in 36.000km :thumbsup:

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Glad you got the shims :thumbsup: . Did you do the adjustment? Were they in or out of spec?

Cheers!
ChinaV

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChinaV

Glad you got the shims :thumbsup: . Did you do the adjustment? Were they in or out of spec?

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I just supervised, watched & learned while assisting Zhao Feng. I have never done any valve things, my tinkering expierence is limited to 2-stroke engines on my Trabant and Simson 50cc's - these machines run magicly without any valves :naughty:
Now I know - could handle it myself now if I had shims.

3 valves were out of spec by up to 0.15mm, one was okay. Initially all 4 valves were with 1.80mm shims equiped.

Out of this expierence, I guess if you get shims within 1.5mm - 2.1mm you should be fine.

I have 2.600km on the bike. Lets hope the engine is build to Honda spec and fullfills the 36.000km till next adjustment...that will take a while :riding:

Nice work, André. Any noticeable change in performance after bringing the tolerances back into spec? Smoother idle? Better torque?

I did the valves on my KLR a year ago and was amazed that this is accomplished with little coin-shaped lozenges! Internal combustion engines really are the ultimate Rube Goldberg machines.

cheers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by andre555

I just supervised, watched & learned while assisting Zhao Feng. I have never done any valve things, my tinkering expierence is limited to 2-stroke engines on my Trabant and Simson 50cc's - these machines run magicly without any valves :naughty:
Now I know - could handle it myself now if I had shims.

3 valves were out of spec by up to 0.15mm, one was okay. Initially all 4 valves were with 1.80mm shims equiped.

Out of this expierence, I guess if you get shims within 1.5mm - 2.1mm you should be fine.

I have 2.600km on the bike. Lets hope the engine is build to Honda spec and fullfills the 36.000km till next adjustment...that will take a while :riding:

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I'm glad you found a mechanic that knows how to do the work. Just a little curious how you could ride your bike over there and perform the adjustment as it takes 6-8 hours for the engine to cool enough to perform the adjustment :confused1:. Did you leave it overnight and perform the adjustment the next day?

Any photos of the procedure?

Cheers!
ChinaV

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChinaV

I'm glad you found a mechanic that knows how to do the work. Just a little curious how you could ride your bike over there and perform the adjustment as it takes 6-8 hours for the engine to cool enough to perform the adjustment :confused1:. Did you leave it overnight and perform the adjustment the next day?

Any photos of the procedure?

Cheers!
ChinaV

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...hmm, :rolleyes1: good question. Not aware of this.

Waited maybe one hour, then take it slowly apart, arrived at 1.30, left at 5.30 - so whole procedure was around 4h. This includes waiting, have smoke, talk bullshit with the little English, they know, and the little Chinese slabo and I know.
Parts were, touchable, not noticeable warm or even hot, but not "cold" either...

On slabo’s bike the valves were also checked and they waited much longer, and insisted on waiting, while slabo started taking it apart. Zhao Feng's helper only started towards my bike was already being assembled again.

Rode home afterwards, so far so good, the ticking noise that was there before is gone. Idle is more stable as before. Others no noticeable change to me, but I'm not very sensitive either...:riding:

Took few mobile phone pics, will post later.

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Just checked the Honda service manual, engine temperature max 35°C for the procedure. As the parts were not noticeable warm when you touched them, I guess they were around/below this temperature.
Explains why they waited with slabo's bike longer and told him 15-20°C...

Thread started as ChinaV's Yingang.. funny how did it ended up about our valve clearances.
I'm surprised how fast the procedure was done on my bike. I just left to get a coke, came back, the covers were on! I had doubts they actually did anything, but it was clear when I rode the bike. Feels a bit more responsive now, and sounds better.
Thanks for everything Andre:riding:

Naim, were your valves out of kilter too? By how much?

Like I said, I wasn't there when they did the adjustment. Aparently it's as simple as turning two screws, it was done by the time I went to buy a coke! Same as ChinaV's instructions on the 200GY Qingqi. I tried to ask how much they had to adjust, but they didn't give me a number. I gues you just keep tightning it until its tight on a .08mm (or some other value) gauge.

Shim Type Adjusters
http://www.dansmc.com/dohc5a.jpgShim type adjusters are supposed to extend the valve check intervals. However, when it comes time to change things it can get expensive. Each shim is a certain thickness. If you need more valve clearance, you put in a thinner shim, at $10 to $15 per shim. Let's see... a 4 cyl, 4 valve engine has 16 shims... WOW, that adds up fast. AND you are replacing good parts. For the shims rarely wear out. Good news is you can swap shims between valves, tight one for a loose one, and save some money there.
http://www.dansmc.com/dohc2a.jpgGet the valve cover off. On most shim engines that entails 10-20 bolts, a real fragile gasket that is easy to break and a big H shaped cover. Now you will find that things look a bit different from a rocker engine... namely, there aren't any rockers. You will notice the cam and the shim are real close together. To get that shim out first rotate the shim bucket till the notch on it is out. Then rotate the engine so the cam lobe pushes the shim and shim bucket down. Now you use a special tool to hold the edge of the shim bucket down and rotate the cam lobe out of the way. Reach in the notch with a small screw driver and pop the shim up. Remove it with tweezers. Look on the down side of the shim and it will give you it's size. If you can't make out the numbers, measure it with dial calipers. Now when you put in the special too be very careful and don't force anything. Go slow. It all should feel very smooth. If it feels like it is binding... IT IS. DON'T FORCE IT you can break very expensive parts very easily. Consider yourself warned ! http://www.dansmc.com/valve_adjust23a.jpgThe Yamaha XS series of engines uses a different tool. But the idea is still the same. Naturally, there are different tools for each make of engine. The tools are not too expensive so I just buy them, but I think you could make them too. They all work on the same principle. You have to hold down the edge of the shim bucket, but not the shim, against the valve spring pressure.
Some engines, like the KX650 Kawasaki, have the shim UNDER the shim bucket. You must remove the cams to adjust the valves. There are some others that do that too. Real smart work fellows !
The shims come in different diameters too. You can use the same shim in different make engines as long as they are the same diameter and, of course, the right thickness.
Always put the side with the size stamped on it in down. That is so the cam lobe will not wear the size markings off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MJH

Shim Type Adjusters
http://www.dansmc.com/dohc5a.jpgShim type adjusters are supposed to extend the valve check intervals. However, when it comes time to change things it can get expensive. Each shim is a certain thickness. If you need more valve clearance, you put in a thinner shim, at $10 to $15 per shim. Let's see... a 4 cyl, 4 valve engine has 16 shims... WOW, that adds up fast. AND you are replacing good parts. For the shims rarely wear out. Good news is you can swap shims between valves, tight one for a loose one, and save some money there.
http://www.dansmc.com/dohc2a.jpgGet the valve cover off. On most shim engines that entails 10-20 bolts, a real fragile gasket that is easy to break and a big H shaped cover. Now you will find that things look a bit different from a rocker engine... namely, there aren't any rockers. You will notice the cam and the shim are real close together. To get that shim out first rotate the shim bucket till the notch on it is out. Then rotate the engine so the cam lobe pushes the shim and shim bucket down. Now you use a special tool to hold the edge of the shim bucket down and rotate the cam lobe out of the way. Reach in the notch with a small screw driver and pop the shim up. Remove it with tweezers. Look on the down side of the shim and it will give you it's size. If you can't make out the numbers, measure it with dial calipers. Now when you put in the special too be very careful and don't force anything. Go slow. It all should feel very smooth. If it feels like it is binding... IT IS. DON'T FORCE IT you can break very expensive parts very easily. Consider yourself warned ! http://www.dansmc.com/valve_adjust23a.jpgThe Yamaha XS series of engines uses a different tool. But the idea is still the same. Naturally, there are different tools for each make of engine. The tools are not too expensive so I just buy them, but I think you could make them too. They all work on the same principle. You have to hold down the edge of the shim bucket, but not the shim, against the valve spring pressure.
Some engines, like the KX650 Kawasaki, have the shim UNDER the shim bucket. You must remove the cams to adjust the valves. There are some others that do that too. Real smart work fellows !
The shims come in different diameters too. You can use the same shim in different make engines as long as they are the same diameter and, of course, the right thickness.
Always put the side with the size stamped on it in down. That is so the cam lobe will not wear the size markings off.

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http://www.dansmc.com/valveclearence.htm

If you don't include a link to the original article, we'd think you came up with that stuff. Soon we'll be asking you to write books and service manuals.

Yes, and always give credit where credit is due.

I cant say it enough that this is one of the best forums out there. All of you with your collective knowledge has been invaluable to me as a new rider and owner. Thank you all